Who called for the DB hit on the Dragonborn?

[RedRavyn]

@ Tidus44: I've gotten those random assassinations without ever having met Shavari, or, indeed ever having been in Riften (which is the only place she appears). Most of the time the Thalmor will send out their own agents in "death squads" to hunt you down once you've riled them up.

 

@ Georgiegril: Random events are random. I can't offer any absolute proof about this, since I have yet to locate the script in the CK that promulgates an assassination attempt, but there have been comments by other people more knowledgeable than myself that these are, indeed, random. I've been targeted before any dragons (except Alduin) appeared during normal games. In one of my playthroughs involving a start in which the Main Quest isn't even engaged (and Helgen isn't destroyed) I've had one such random assassination attempt. Dragons have nothing to do with them.

 

According to the wikia the random assassination encounters have only two requisites: You're moving and you're "on the road".

 

According to the wiki "The person behind the assassination isn't mentioned (because there's no in-game motive for it)".

 

Both of these imply that it's just a roll of the dice in the game whether or not a random encounter is going to be an assassin or something else (like a Stormcloak patrol, Maiq the Liar, or any of about a hundred possible random encounters that are coded into the game).

 

@ VileTouch: Animals won't snitch on you for killing wildlife. There's nothing illegal about killing wildlife and doing so isn't a crime. I think the old Oblivion problem of your own horse ratting you out to the city guards and Imperial Legion has been fixed in Skyrim, but was replaced with other animals reporting crimes. This has less to do with any intent on the part of the developers, but, rather on the way that factions operate in Skyrim. The whole faction issue is broken in a number of ways, including creating the "illusion" that a chicken has a hot-line directly to the office of the Captain of the Guard of the hold in which the chicken lives. I could be wrong about this, but it's my best guess. After the flack that Bethesda took from players regarding horses reporting crimes in Oblivion, I can't imagine that they'd build that into Skyrim as well. Well, maybe I can imagine it. Bethesda developers have a penchant for sheer meanness.

[VileTouch]

...

@ VileTouch: Animals won't snitch on you for killing wildlife. There's nothing illegal about killing wildlife and doing so isn't a crime. I think the old Oblivion problem of your own horse ratting you out to the city guards and Imperial Legion has been fixed in Skyrim, but was replaced with other animals reporting crimes. This has less to do with any intent on the part of the developers, but, rather on the way that factions operate in Skyrim. The whole faction issue is broken in a number of ways, including creating the "illusion" that a chicken has a hot-line directly to the office of the Captain of the Guard of the hold in which the chicken lives. I could be wrong about this, but it's my best guess. After the flack that Bethesda took from players regarding horses reporting crimes in Oblivion, I can't imagine that they'd build that into Skyrim as well. Well, maybe I can imagine it. Bethesda developers have a penchant for sheer meanness.

 

try killing a wolf in sneak mode while there's a chicken nearby...or not even near by, i've noticed it only needs to be within the UgridsToLoad. soon after you either get a bounty or "someone" (the blasted chicken) send thugs after you :/ ... AND it counts as an assault! ...but you kill a hunter, even if it's friendly it's all good :wallbash:

and the horses? phewleeze! those are the biggest snitches of them all!

i guess you're right... the factions in skyrim are really broken

 

 

oh and there's a flag that sets all kinds of odd creatures as witness...why it is like that is beyond me

Edited May 27, 2012 by VileTouch

[StayFrosty05]

'Skyrim Official Guide' Book states DB Assassin attempts, Thalmor Death Squad, etc...as just random events, triggered by nothing and no-one.

[Tidus44]

@ Tidus44: I've gotten those random assassinations without ever having met Shavari, or, indeed ever having been in Riften (which is the only place she appears). Most of the time the Thalmor will send out their own agents in "death squads" to hunt you down once you've riled them up.

 

The question asked was "who performed the Black Sacrament on the Dragonborn" as in what person, not when are they sending the assassins, not why are they sending them, not who is the first assassin the player will run across or if the attacks are random.

 

Eslaf Erol's history of Skyrim states that the only group sending out assassination squads and assassins to kill the Dragonborn is the Thalmor. Everyone else sends out hired thugs with a note and 100 septims payment.

 

The first assassin engaged by the Thalmor is Shavari, not that she is the first assassin to attack.

 

The History states that while it is believed Elenwen hired Shavari, it is unlikely she performed the sacrement for the DB and this was likely performed by J'datharr.

 

While the attacks are random based upon traveling the countryside, the only group that has a motive to kill the Dovahkiin and who sends out assassins is the Thalmor.

 

And while I appreciate the wiki has some information, it doesn't have it all.

[RedRavyn]

@ Tidus44: You made that up, right, Tidus? Seriously, I know of no "History of Skyrim" written by Eslaf Erol. A number of books written by Reven deal with the adventures of Eslaf Erol, but those date back to the game Oblivion. I seriously doubt that Eslaf Erol even lived into the times that the events in Skyrim unfold, so how could he have possibly written a book describing the assassination attempts on the Dovahkiin?

 

Indeed, Eslaf Erol, himself, was totally fictional. Read his name backward. It says "False Lore". Don't get taken in by every in-game book you might read. Very little of that information can be considered canon within the context of the ES games because they were all written by authors who were both fallible and may have had agendas of their own.

 

@ VileTouch: Well, I've actually killed wolves in sneak mode with multiple chickens (and goats and farm workers) nearby and I never accrued a bounty for it. Nor did the killings (five wolves in all) increase the number of my assaults. I'm pretty anal about re-checking my crime stats after every encounter in which one of my stray arrows might have hit an innocent bystander, so I'm pretty sure about these facts. I can absolutely guarantee that the other wildlife isn't reporting this, either.

 

To date (level 15, almost to level 16 in this playthrough) I probably have well over a hundred wolf kills, at least half of them in sneak mode, and many within full view of giants, mammoths, elk, deer, mudcrabs, slaughterfish, bunnies, bees, and butterflies. Not a single one has gotten me a bounty or an assault. During the short time I was using a horse I went out hunting on a number of occasions. No bounties or assualts got reported by my horse. If this is happening to you I suggest you look to your mods for the culprit, because it's not in the vanilla game.

 

Now, having the wildlife report real crimes against people ... that's a different matter altogether. I'm in the process of trying to learn the Skyrim AI so I can fix that issue on a global basis.

[landy8]

Well, like I said somewhere earlier, sending assassins to kill your clueless character is an ancient Bethesda's tradition. It happened even in Daggerfall.

 

As for the "who ordered you?" question... Consider it a loose end of your character's previous life. Maybe you've noticed that when the Skyrim events begin, your character is a mature person already. Do you really think your char lived in some ivory tower never interacting with anyone, and then was suddenly mystically teleported right into that imperial ambush?

[RedRavyn]

I'm using an alternate start in which the Main Quest isn't even engaged, so none of the implied backstory that leads up to Thalmor assassination contracts applies. I've religiously avoided any criminal activity at all, short of goading Anise into attacking me so that I could kill her in relatively good conscience. I haven't stolen anything. I have only six assaults (all against bandits), and only two trespasses (both in Anise's cellar, prior to installing my mod which "fixes" this little issue). No murders. No horse thefts. My kitty has a clean nose. I've just as religiously avoided any contact whatsoever with Imperial Troops, Stormcloak Troops, and Thalmor. They don't even know I exist. I've never even been in a city, save for Riverwood. I do all my trading in Riverwood and with the Khajiit caravans and hunters.

 

I've been hunting and fishing, exploring, gathering alchemical ingredients, and doing good deeds for people for sixteen levels and this evening I got my very first DB assassin. I think it's funny in that same game-day I also had "Khajiit" attack me while I was out in the wilderness and "Orc" was actually waiting INSIDE the inn in Riverwood (never met one of these random people inside a building), exuding her usual arrogance that required me to rid the world of her.

 

Random events are random events. There doesn't have to be a motive, just as landy8 said. The Bethesda developers just like doing this sort of thing. They make sure that trouble follows your character around Skyrim even if you're playing an absolute saint. I think that their assumption is that every player is going to follow their lead (if you can call a chain attached to a nose-ring a "lead") and get into all sorts of trouble as a direct result of the quests they build that seem to have just this agenda in mind. Some of us aren't so easily led, but we still have to deal with the fallout of a gamesystem that assumes we're going to be nice little robots and do everything according to the developers' schedule.

[landy8]

Random events are random events.

 

I had no intentions to object. I only tried to imagine some reason for the people who want it. :wink:

[Tidus44]

@ Tidus44: You made that up, right, Tidus? Seriously, I know of no "History of Skyrim" written by Eslaf Erol. A number of books written by Reven deal with the adventures of Eslaf Erol, but those date back to the game Oblivion. I seriously doubt that Eslaf Erol even lived into the times that the events in Skyrim unfold, so how could he have possibly written a book describing the assassination attempts on the Dovahkiin?

 

Indeed, Eslaf Erol, himself, was totally fictional. Read his name backward. It says "False Lore". Don't get taken in by every in-game book you might read. Very little of that information can be considered canon within the context of the ES games because they were all written by authors who were both fallible and may have had agendas of their own.

 

Well, I apologize for being so offensive as to suggest that there is more to read and think on Skyrim than what you post and the wiki. Obviously, if you have not seen it or read it, it doesn't exist and someone mentioning it is a liar. Thank you for your opinion.

The Nexus and wiki are not the only web sites or places with an interest in ES games and nor do they have exclusive right to dictate what everyone should think of the game. While Tamriel Musings is not the best known, its members do have fun discussing the game for further enjoyment (rather than to find fault and put it down) and to write a very nice history and lore manual that, frankly, I prefer to the wiki and those who find nothing but fault with the game.

 

While I do not dispute that you find the game to be a bunch of random BS designed solely to frustrate and upset those who play it, there are those who do find it to be an enjoyable game and that what goes on in the game makes sense if given a tiny bit of thought and a miniscule amount of imagination.

 

As you are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine - they are equally of value to the person asking a question, whether you like it or not.

[IndorilTheGreat]

My question is who in their right mind would call a hit on the reincarnation of a dragon? Surely the word about this figure single-handedly slaying dragons would be enough for the DB to say "Nuh-uh. That's suicide."

 

Besides, doesn't the DB only take contracts that adhere to their "code of ethics?"