Old World Blues Expanded

[ZackieSon]

Didn't think of that good idea! That would make the player have to choose between three different groups: The Think Tank, The OSI, and the Commonwealth!

[devinpatterson]

Love Red Dwarf!

Rabid red dwarf fan here too :smile:

 

As to further limiting it's invulnerability...I'd suggest that leaving the bot effect of being vulnerable to weapons that do EMP damage effects would be a good way to do it.

Yeah EMP would really ruin it's day.

 

Hey, I had this weird idea - how about a Tron homage? Specifically, the player gets called to the Think Tank because of some computer problems and gets digitized into the Big MT Mainframe. They would then explore Big MT while fighting off a virus attacking the mainframe (like Operation: Anchorage). This scenario allows for photonic companions (i.e. hack the system for goodies) and allow the seeing of Big MT before it blew off the top of the mountain. Successfully helping the mainframe in the "virtual" world will unlock areas in the "real" world.

Hmmmm. I do have a VR that is a combined sim of all the think tanks's REM time (located in a central mainframe). So I'm a bit hesitant about another VR, but it sounds like the two environments are very different from each other;

 

Dream VR;

 

 

 

QUOTE

 

"im hoping that the vr thing will be like tranquility lane except in the higgs villiage"

 

 

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I plan on copying the cell (but of course I'll change the enclosing building to a 6' white fence). Then plop it down in a mini-world of it's own so it won't appear to have any boarders, and will have a sky, other neighborhoods in the distance etc. That should complete the illusion.

 

It also has the advantage that if I ever need to expand it, I can. For instance maybe the neighborhood has a gate that leads to a soda shop that was a favorite hangout of one of the think tank's when he/she was a kid, perhaps a general store. A little VR Mayberry, or what have you.

 

I like hte idea of a VR and being able to see the think tanks as they were in human form. I like the idea of expanding their personalty, interests etc. For instance there would be a friendly VR version of gabe before his modifications, that would wander from Borus's house to backyard. Exploring Dala's house reveals she has some rather racy holo tapes she claims are essential for her research into formology, or maybe she wants to do some hands on research. A lot of different implications to explore for each think tank. Maybe 8 can make an appearance in a more understandable dialog.

 

But all of the think tanks (except possibly Dala) eschew and look down upon biological beings. I'm kind of going against lore if I include the VR as a recreational activity, because OWB portrays the think tanks as not wanting to be human anymore. They consider it messy, inefficient etc. So I came up with an idea. They have a recharge plate/base/dais in each chamber. I believe (I could be wrong) that every vertebrate, from the lowliest fish all the way to humans dream. So I tend to think Brainbots of all varieties do as well.

 

This VR can be an extension of this dreamstate. So when they plug in for their recharge, their brains also go into a REM state and enter the VR. This way the VR has more potential plot lines and can delve deeper into the think tank personalities. You can see their concerns, neurosis, conflicts etc materialize inside the sim, giving you a much deeper insight into their psyches.

 

This could allow for quests that digg into the subconsciousness's of the think tanks and are character related. Being a VR and a dreamstate means the think tanks could appear as their robotic selves, adults or even children....all dictated by the dream they are having. For instance maybe the first time the player enters the VR, Borous is a child and Betsy and Marcus are bullying him. You can help to resolve the situation (peacefully or otherwise) and begin to abosolve him of this obsession he has with the two.

 

But it doesn't have to be all character based quests. Because it's a dreamscape, it allows for a much wider variety of encounters, and thus the possibility for some real combat too. For instance a night mare of a Chinese communist invasion the player must fight off. Perhaps subconsciously the think tanks fear other lobotimites, besides the PC, (or any one of their crazy experiments) gaining self determination. That could result in VR nightmares of lobotimites invading higgs village, or even the Giant roboscoprion.

 

A lot of their culture will show in their dreams as well. The ever present pre-war paranoia will be reflected in the fear of chinese spies or co-conspirators. Pehaps the pint sized slasher was a national story and makes an appearance.

 

Really a ton of direction you can go on this one.

 

The only downside is you wouldn't be able to take any items out with you. Most of the time the think tanks wouldn't remember their dreams but some fragments may survive to the waking world. Some of those memories might give the think tank an idea about a weapon, mod or other device and a think tank could give you a holo to use at the sink to make it a reality.

 

 

 

I think it's a much easier sale than time travel for a pre-war OWB.

[devinpatterson]

what if his group the OSI, a large group of scientists, come to the Big empty to restore it.

Yeah I think so, if they should find out about it. Although i'm not sure how that info would filter down to them if the courier him/herself didn't spill the beans.

 

 

Zackie's Idea is pretty good but Id go one step further and say that members of the Commonwealth and OSI want the technology of the Big MT now that its open and are currently going for an all out war against each other.

Hey theDemonJackal, great work on the Priest thread brother, some good ideas. Thanks for helping out on this thread.

 

The commonwealth/Institute? Hmmmm I don't know too much about them, they'r pretty sparse on info other than the android/MIT tie in.

[theDemonJackal]

Thanks Devinpatterson I was really passionate about that idea, but i think some people have lost interest as of late. Anyways, you are very welcome I would love to see some of these ideas come to life.

As for the common wealth, not knowing about them makes them far more dangerous than that of the OSI. However, they would have a greater firepower than that of the Osi and as a result would be the greater threat. As ya said there about the Androids that was exactly what I believed the Common wealth would be using.

Think of it this way.

BigMT's radio signal wouldnt just have been heard by the couriers, anyone with something that could pick up a signal could go ahead and find the Satilite. So heres what I came up with. The OSI picked up the signal and went to investigate, but the common wealth spie in the OSI reported back to them about this satilite that was launched from the Big Mt. This means that the Big Mountain is now open. OSI has sent some scientists(along with some gaurds) to the location, while the common wealth have sent their best Andriods. Can the Think Tank band togeter with Dr. Mobouis to stop their destruction or will they perish along with the secrets of Big Mt?

[darkus37]

VR-world

 

The Dream VR is kind of what I was talking about, except that in my remarkable similar idea, the VR world is that of a fully operational Big MT (i.e. buildings un-exploded and clean, top of the mountain still there). There would also be real world consequences in that, for example, there is a sealed area that can't be hacked into or opened through traditional means (i.e. explosives or lockpicking) - the player enters the virtual world and is able to unlock the area by performing certain actions.

 

One thing I would really like to see is Gabriel as a virtual puppy and a respawnable giant robot scorpion boss.

 

New Management

 

The Commonwealth faction should probably be avoided, simply because they seem to already be too much like the Think Tank (scientific research without ethical concerns or oversight). The OSI it appears also suffers from this flaw, considering Dr. Hildern's behavior - they are also either a part of, or allied with, the NCR; which opens a whole other can of worms, i.e. Legion interest.

 

If a third faction is truly needed, there are always the Enclave or Brotherhood Of Steel to consider. I'm pretty sure Big MT was famous enough before the war that it would be a major target of either. They are overused though, so that's a strike against them.

 

I should also point out that there are no real defenses in the place either than the Lobotimites and some crazed robots - any really motivated party can enter and take control of the place... giant robot scorpions aside (which the Courier probably destroyed). An enemy force can just be raiders that overwhelmed the lobo's and consequently gained access to energy weaponry.

[devinpatterson]

VR-world

 

The Dream VR is kind of what I was talking about, except that in my remarkable similar idea, the VR world is that of a fully operational Big MT....there is a sealed area that can't be hacked into or opened through traditional means (i.e. explosives or lockpicking) - the player enters the virtual world and is able to unlock the area by performing certain actions.

I must have had mental malfunction, because it fits in perfect with teh dream VR and for some reason I only thought of them as separate environments. But it's a great match because it's probably an environment strongly imprinted in teh think tanks subconsciousness's. They probably worked years of decades there. And on a slight twist, maybe instead of opening a door in the VR allowing the door in reality to open, it might reflect more on knowledge. So for example a door with no code would forever be inaccsisble because even the think tanks concsious mind doesn't remember it anymore. But in the dream VR the think tanks subconscious mind might. It might come as a note in the dream world, watching over the shoulder as the think tank punches it in, a terminal entry etc. Once the player sees it in the dream VR he can go to teh real thing, & low and behold the code works.

 

Might also be good for bumping up some OWB combat. What do teh think tanks fear? Have a repeat of the Nukes striking. Maybe in the dream VR the lobotomites turn against the think tanks. That could be challenging if they come at the player in mass and he has to protect the think tanks.

 

Or maybe some real OWB zaniness. Maybe all those brains that were removed from the lobotomites come to seek vengeance (kind of like we discussed earlier in teh thread). Have floating brains (rig em to eyebots) with a intelligence draining ray and make it a homage to futurama (we'll try to impersonate the voice).

 

 

 

One thing I would really like to see is Gabriel as a virtual puppy and a respawnable giant robot scorpion boss.

Yeah I like Gabe too. In the 2nd beta I made a clone of him in a research center. He has a red "ball" he likes to play with that is actually a (now damaged) prototype of a heavy combat eyebot. I also put a dart gun the handlers used to knock him out (so the player doens't have to kill him) and made reference to this being the third clone of gabe in case I want to put a few more around.

 

 

If a third faction is truly needed, there are always the Enclave or Brotherhood Of Steel to consider. I'm pretty sure Big MT was famous enough before the war that it would be a major target of either. They are overused though, so that's a strike against them.

Yeah I think the BOS is definitely a possibility. I don't know for sure on the enclave, as it seems by this time they are either really scattered or completely ineffectual. However I don't know if that's just on teh west coast or it is true across the nation (which I suspect, after the major defeats they suffered on the east coast in broken steel).

 

 

I should also point out that there are no real defenses in the place either than the Lobotimites and some crazed robots - any really motivated party can enter and take control of the place... giant robot scorpions aside (which the Courier probably destroyed). An enemy force can just be raiders that overwhelmed the lobo's and consequently gained access to energy weaponry.

I think they are physically enclosed. I don't know if it's rugged mountains or some other obstacle but I believe they are isolated, enclosed or in some other way (tech or natural) unreachable from the wasteland (or at least were until just recently). As an example, Elijah had to ram/crash a train to make an exit. He was never lobotomized so he could have left if he chose to, but the way wasn't physically open to him.

 

I suspect that things like the satellite were how wastelanders were gathered/harvested, their high tech fly paper. I'd also wager they went right from the satellite into the autodoc (maybe that's were they materialized) where they were immediately lobotomized. The lobotomies aren't a safety feature to protect the think tanks (it's a code error). But they may have other safeguards, like that pacification field that is in the think tank itself and prevents you from attacking. I'm guessing that before the autodoc got all out of wack, the think tanks had access to relatively intact human specimens and they would have had to be controlled in some way.

 

Of course at least one person found a alternate way in, Elijah. I don't know if Christine and Ulysses took the same route or found one of their own. But I suspect Christine used the same method as Elijah since she was close on his heels.

 

And now the trap(s?) will result in processing by a more functional auto doc. I read somewhere that the courier's brain injury caused it re-calibrate an restore it's code to an intact revision or something. I'll try to find the entry, as I don't know what the practical aspect would be for new people coming in through eh satellite.

[darkus37]

VR World

 

I probably just wasn't too clear before.

 

What do securitrons fear? .... uh.... stairs? Since they were re-programmed by Dr. 0 (who seems to have a severe inferiority complex with Mr. House), how about that somehow being part of their programming and showing them a virtual image of Mr. House might mess em up?

 

OWB zaniness - I'm pretty sure that brains wouldn't have been saved (the Courier is apparently an exception); but that said, it would be cool to have new weird looking enemies appear. How about a robobrain, with vertibird propellers for arms (reduced in size accordingly) and a turret instead of legs? By the way, had an idea on this one - is it possible to have a lot of really tiny robots (like the spider drones) that causes only a little bit of damage, but that constantly seem to respawn (until stopped)? This would be in one room/area only.

 

BigMT Takeover

 

I see the Enclave as cockroaches - never truly wiped out, only temporarily reduced in numbers. Every time they were supposed to be destroyed, they just returned again later. Countless military installations in the U.S. or annexed Canada would be perfect for them to crawl out of again. The Brotherhood doesn't appear to have the numbers to do so however, so it's doubtful they could mount a serious crusade.

 

From the wiki: http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Big_MT

: Big MT had few visitors, the sheer size of the crater serving as its best camouflage: most wastelanders assumed the ragged edges to be remnants of a massive nuclear explosion and avoided it altogether. The unfortunate few who wandered in disappeared forever, apprehended by robots and lobotomized by the think tanks to act as organic automata, maintaining the decaying facility and protecting it against scavengers. Over the years, it ironically became known in the wasteland as the "Big Empty", a place where nothing exists. Its size and aura of mystery blocked the establishment of trade routes and reliable supply caravans between the Boneyard and New Vegas, a fact that proved crucial to the Caesar's Legion survival immediately following the First Battle of Hoover Dam, as the NCR was unable to reinforce its army quickly enough.

 

I think the reason Elijah, Ulysses, and Christine got in was because they went in individually; and Ulysses and Elijah apparently stayed long enough to need to establish bases. Getting out might have been more difficult for Elijah because he angered the Think Tank, requiring him to make an exit.

[greenknightfury]

devinpatterson, on 09 Jan 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

 

I think they are physically enclosed. I don't know if it's rugged mountains or some other obstacle but I believe they are isolated, enclosed or in some other way (tech or natural) unreachable from the wasteland (or at least were until just recently). As an example, Elijah had to ram/crash a train to make an exit. He was never lobotomized so he could have left if he chose to, but the way wasn't physically open to him.

 

 

Well the opening images reveal that the crater has another rim of mountains outside, and you can see them when you try to go past the radar fence. Really wish they had left the chance to turn off the fence in, they left the challenge for going past the radar fence in and you can't do that no matter what you choose with it on.

 

 

 

darkus37: OWB zaniness - I'm pretty sure that brains wouldn't have been saved (the Courier is apparently an exception); but that said, it would be cool to have new weird looking enemies appear. How about a robobrain, with vertibird propellers for arms (reduced in size accordingly) and a turret instead of legs? By the way, had an idea on this one - is it possible to have a lot of really tiny robots (like the spider drones) that causes only a little bit of damage, but that constantly seem to respawn (until stopped)? This would be in one room/area only.

 

Well you run across filled brain tanks (like the one in the Sink and Morbius' dome) all over in certain facilities. Of course the V.R. collective subconscious suggests that all the past brains of the Think Tanks victims might still be in there, sort of a "ghost in the machine", the data of their consciousness being trapped there.

 

I'd love to see both your ideas and devin's with the Futurama reference.

 

 

 

 

BigMT Takeover

I see the Enclave as cockroaches - never truly wiped out, only temporarily reduced in numbers. Every time they were supposed to be destroyed, they just returned again later. Countless military installations in the U.S. or annexed Canada would be perfect for them to crawl out of again. The Brotherhood doesn't appear to have the numbers to do so however, so it's doubtful they could mount a serious crusade.

 

From the clues given through the games, the only truly important military installation not controlled by the Enclave by the time the war began was the one that spawned the Brotherhood. And the area around Nevada is pretty well scattered with various such bases (a lot more before the cold war ended, but it never did in FO America, just shifted to the Chinese), add in the bunker complexes in reality and the game and you've got plenty of places that might house more isolated pockets of Enclave around.

 

[darkus37]

Actually, based off the behavior of the scientists at Mariposa Military Base, it might be possible that the Enclave was there as well (Maxson killed them all once he found out what they were doing with FEV).

[theDemonJackal]

Actaully now that I think about it if we are going for the whole Faction against the BigMT why dont we go all out OWB's crazyness on it and look at the prime enemy of the 50s B movies. I am of course refering to aliens. But not the same ones from before. Like the kind we would see in those films (big head grey and large eyes with small torso). Maybe they see the BigMT's tech as the only real threat the have against conquering Earth.

Or have something like Invasion of the Body snatchers or the Thing where you are given some allies but dont know which ones to trust anymore before its too late(once again this could be done by say having a meteorite crash into the Crytal mineing fields)

Or have Borous commit the Unspeakable and have created Mutants behind the rest of the teams back. Like a Cazador woman as the queen of these mutants.

Or we take the idea from the B-Movie Mesa of lost women where a scientest is trying to create super women in his lab (in this case it would be Borous creating a bunch of super powered clones of Betsy.)

Or to stick with some of the original plot have an insane brain that much like your own was unique but is far more dangerous now that it has hijacked a robo-brain and upgrading it to more of a lethal force. Imagine if you will a violent raider is given intellegence far superiour to your own brain. That is what he has become.