Systex Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I don't understand how people can possibly go with the Empire. Remember, it were they that wanted to execute you... for no apparent reason. If it wasn't for Alduin, you'd be dead.Another thing is that the Empire bans the worship of Talos, thus killing all the pride and honor of a Nord. And lets talk about the Thalmor, they capture Nords, interrogate and torture them. And of course the Empire (General Tullius in this case) supports the Thalmor. In my 300+ hours of gameplay I've heard multiple Thalmor elves shout: "soon all Nords will bow to the Thalmor" and "don't you see, elven supremacy is the only truth." And why do some people claim Ulfric to be a racist? I know that the dark elves live in the Grey Quarter of Windhelm, but really, they should be happy that they've got a roof over their heads. We all know that Nords don't like the elves, but this is exactly the same what happens in the real world. Many Europeans don't like all the people from the Middle East invading our land. I've also made a little comparison of the Jarl's that side with the Stormcloaks, and with the Empire. I can honestly say that the Jarl's supporting the Empire are utter douche bags that care nothing for but for themselves. They also look like proper rich idiots that don't give a crap about pride and honor. But just like with everything, it's just a matter of opinion. The only Jarl I like that supports the Empire, is Balgruuf the Greater. He doesn't like the Thalmor and he's not a Thalmor slave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakwind Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The reasoning behind helping the Empire for me is simple. The real enemy are the Thalmor, and they hint during the game that they are only biding their time before an onslaught against men. A united Empire is more likely to resist them than a fractured one...do the Stormcloaks really think they have a chance against the Thalmor once they have marched through Cyrodill and defeated the Imperials? And if Ulfric is so good, why use a powerful shout to defeat a king not much older than a boy? A seasoned soldier such as himself should have found more honour in a fair duel, than hiding behind shout power. He is nothing more than a bully and a standover merchant. I am glad I killed him...several times now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted4666244User Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 the problem i have with the stormcloaks, not just ulfric, is that they are nord-favoritist. have you guys ever seen a non-nord in the Stormcloaks besided the DB? no? i rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettM Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I've also made a little comparison of the Jarl's that side with the Stormcloaks, and with the Empire. I can honestly say that the Jarl's supporting the Empire are utter douche bags that care nothing for but for themselves. They also look like proper rich idiots that don't give a crap about pride and honor. But just like with everything, it's just a matter of opinion. The only Jarl I like that supports the Empire, is Balgruuf the Greater. He doesn't like the Thalmor and he's not a Thalmor slave.I see a mix of good and bad jarls on either side, and the average quality of leadership seems pretty darned low no matter which side wins. Neither Tullius nor Ulfric is really concerned with who would best serve the people of each hold, but only with whether the jarl gives them at least lip service and won't cause them any trouble. Let's look at the record, leaving aside Windhelm and Solitude. By my count, both sides have four jarls that range from acceptable to outstanding and three that range from inept to vile. Empire: Maven (Riften) -- Vile. Enough said. Siddgeir (Falkreath) -- Concerned only with his own luxury and priviledge. Despicable, though not as actively bad as the Black Briars. Igmund (Markarth) -- Clueless, inept, and willing to ignore the corruption in his city as long as it keeps the mine operating. Brina (Dawnstar) -- Doesn't seem too bad, though I believe some of the people consider her self-interested for unclear reasons. Kralder (Winterhold) -- Pretty decent. Seems more interested in doing something about Winterhold's problems rather than sitting around whining about the College being responsible for them. Idgrod (Morthal) -- Very decent. Concerned with her people and doing justice, though her people don't seem to understand her. Trying to keep Morthal off the radar of both sides, since Hjaalmarch doesn't really have much that anybody wants anyway. Apparently sees supporting the Empire as the best way not to rock the boat. Certainly has no love for the Thalmor and is willing to help you during "Diplomatic Immunity". Balgruuf (Whiterun) -- Outstanding. Enough said. Stormcloak: Thongvor (Markarth) -- Vile. Enough said. Korir (Winterhold) -- Concerned only with image, influence, and placing blame. Ineffective. Skald (Dawnstar) -- Complete idiot. Basically useless. Laila (Riften) -- Clueless and somewhat concerned with her own priviledge. Seems willing to do the right thing given a chance, but ultimately in the pocket of the Black Briars through her corrupt steward. She might be decent if someone would give Maven and Anuriel a dirt nap. She's a borderline case, but I'd count her on the acceptable side. Barely. Dengeir (Falkreath) -- Decent, despite his paranoia. A canny grasp of the virtues of local rule vs. control by a remote Empire. Sorli (Morthal) -- Very decent. Practical and concerned for the welfare of the people. Her people are probably more comfortable with her than with Igrod's mysticism, though, in the long run, Igrod might have an edge in wisdom and experience. Vignar (Whiterun) -- Very decent or even outstanding. He certainly would have been outstanding if he became jarl when he was Balgruuf's age. Not the senile idiot that everyone portrays or that he sometimes sounds like. Is just as willing as Balgruuf to help the dragonborn, has practical plans for the welfare of his hold, and is certainly honorable (as one would expect from a Companion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kibblesticks Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 MacSuibhne,"Sorry. Cant do that." It's dissapointing, but you're geniunely getting a bit too intense about thisfor comfort. Whilst I enjoy the debate, I don't want to make it into a winner/loser situation, I just like the transfer of ideas. Believe me, if it was a real close-to-home war we were talking about, I wouldn't be sat at my computer chatting about it, but rather out there fighting it in some form or other. I do this kind of thing for fun and because it interests me, but you just get really agressive and rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michio2013 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I go imperials because they are the only ones who can stop the real threat to freedom and Talos worship: the thalmor. If I thought that the stormcloaks could beat the thalmor, I would side with them every day and twice on Sunday, but as it stands, the only way to protect Skyrim and Talos worhip LONG TERM, is to help the Empire in the SHORT TERM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacSuibhne Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I go imperials because they are the only ones who can stop the real threat to freedom and Talos worship: the thalmor. If I thought that the stormcloaks could beat the thalmor, I would side with them every day and twice on Sunday, but as it stands, the only way to protect Skyrim and Talos worhip LONG TERM, is to help the Empire in the SHORT TERM. Thirty years and the Empire has done nothing but collaborate and aid the Thalmor in oppressing its own people and the people of Skyrim....in another thirty years everybody involved will be dead and the whole concept of an independent Skyrim will be forgotten...as will the Empire in anything but name only and as a thrall state of the AD. "Long term" "short term" are meaningless in the face of such short sightedness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacSuibhne Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 MacSuibhne,"Sorry. Cant do that." It's dissapointing, but you're geniunely getting a bit too intense about thisfor comfort. Whilst I enjoy the debate, I don't want to make it into a winner/loser situation, I just like the transfer of ideas. Believe me, if it was a real close-to-home war we were talking about, I wouldn't be sat at my computer chatting about it, but rather out there fighting it in some form or other. I do this kind of thing for fun and because it interests me, but you just get really agressive and rude. You're the one pointing fingers. You're the one drawing personalities into the discussion. You're the one characterizing...not ideas...but individuals. You're the one making the pronoun "you" into a weapon and other people targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettM Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I go imperials because they are the only ones who can stop the real threat to freedom and Talos worship: the thalmor.How, though? The Empire surrendered to the Thalmor and is now occupied by them. If they couldn't stop the Thalmor before, what chance do they have now or in the future? The Dominion is not stupid and is now in a position to stop the Empire from building up any strength that could challenge them. To me the Empire seems to be in a hopeless position. I've already explained in previous posts why I believe the Empire can't beat the Dominion and the in-game evidence that I think supports this view. I would like to see the counter-arguments from those who keep insisting that they are the only ones who can do it. How do you (Empire supporters, not you personally) justify this claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Systex Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Skald (Dawnstar) -- Complete idiot. Basically useless.I actually like him... well... sort of. Edited June 6, 2012 by Systex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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