Who are the "Good Guys" in this war?

[landy8]

To penguinchao:

But a number of provinces have left the Empire already. And I think the Empire lost at least some of them because of it's own weakness and foolishness. The Empire was warned about Thalmor even before they took Walenwood! Read the "Rising Threat".

 

To scrdest:

I've told it countless times before.

 

I don't like racists. Hate them, actually. The real racists - nazi - killed my grandfather in real (in WWII). But.

 

The only true Tamriel's racists are THALMOR! THALMOR!!! Not Nords, not Stormcloaks, not Ulfric, but THALMOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

How many times must I write it?

 

First. Ask Ulfric about Dunmer and his thoughts on them! Not some Empire puppets, but Ulfric himself!

Second. Every Tamriel's race has some old feuds with almost every other race. It doesn't mean every race is a race of racists!

Third. Every Jarl, hell, every good ruler must care for his subjects first! Then refuges from some other countries. If you put some foreigners' interests above the ones of your own people - your own people will overthrow you!

Fourth. Stormcloaks are out fighting. That Dunmer chasing thugs in Windhelm are not even Stormcloaks!

Fifth. Try to win the Civil War on Imperial side and look what that new Jarl of Windhelm will say about "Dunmer question"! I tried it once. Still regret it.

 

There was a long discussion about Ulfric, and also about him being or not being a racist in Was Ulfric right to kill the High King? topic. Read it! I have no wish to repeat its terms here.

 

Ulfric is not a racist! He is racists' enemy!

[kevkiev]

...

Fifth. Try to win the Civil War on Imperial side and look what that new Jarl of Windhelm will say about "Dunmer question"! I tried it once. Still regret it.

 

What did he say? My whole 1st game went wonky after completing the Civil War (for the Imperials) and I reinstalled and started over before I scoped out any changes in attitude.

[Tidus44]

Go with the Empire.

 

One can read the history and come to any conclusions based upon their own personal bias and the bias of the writer of the history. I’m pretty sure that every kid in school in Hammerfell is taught the Emperor has horns growing out of his head and can enter daedric oblivion plains by sacrificing little redguard children who do not eat their vegetables. On the other hand, every imperial child is taught the Emperor is a god who brought peace to the land and who comes once a year and leaves presents.

So much for history.

 

Regardless of the history and unsubstantiated conclusions about it, look at the information as the game shows it.

 

Ulfric is a piece of slime and the worst kind of leader. He doesn't lead, he lets his supporters (the greedy rich) run his city allowing them to be racist and virtually slave masters to any race other than Nordic. He cares nothing for the people of his lands and has no ambition for prosperity either. Bandits and marauders run rampant in his lands and he does nothing, and even when a dragon attacks a town in his holdings he does nothing.

There is a serial killer on the loose in his city and does he do anything? What he does is hold the guards back because protecting Ulfric and his palace is way more important than looking after his people.

 

As for the war, if Galmar Stone-Fist wasn’t there to tell him what to do he’d lounge in the Jarls chair until the entire city rotted out from under him.

 

Ulfric is also an opportunist and a coward. His need to rally the Nords resulted in him killing the King for no reason other than because he could. It was known that Torygg held Ulfric in high esteem and would have probably granted Ulfric’s request if Ulfric asked. Anyone else on the throne besides a young boy with limited fighting skills and Ullfric would have gone in an entirely different way, likely back to Windhelm to sit on his Jarl’s chair until he rotted with his city.

 

Lastly, there is even the suggestion that Ulfric is a Thalmor pawn and the reason for the Ulfric led rebellion in Skyrim is to strengthen the Thalmor’s position by weakening the Empire through a rebellion in Skyrim. The Thalmor dossier says “After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset. The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.

Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim.”

Ulfric was even an asset to Elenwen, the current ambassador to Skyrim. There is no coincidence in life, so how come these players are all together now in Skyrim?

 

Why anyone in their right mind would support a cowardly piece of slime like Ulfric is beyond me.

[MacSuibhne]

I still hold to the belief that the true "bad guys" are the Talmor; that's something we can all agree on. The best hope for defeating them is a united Imperial empire, but if Ulfric succeeds in seceding from the empire, there will not be a united empire, but a divided one. You can say what you want about Ulfric's persona, Tullius, the Empire, and the Stormcloaks, but at the end of the day, we should look at this in the scope of Tamriel as a whole, not just Skyrim, and how to defeat the Talmor, the true enemies of freedom.

 

You can't have it both ways...it verges on silly.

 

If The Empire wins there will not be a united Empire. Ulfric, as a person and even as a leader, is not the rebellion. He may be a focus point but the energy, the motives, the antipathy, towards the Empire and the WGC are going to be there until the situation is resolved or the Thalmor wipe out all men on Tamriel. Another leader will emerge.

 

If the Empire wins there is no hope of stopping the Dominion despite the bleats of "playing for time." Simply because the Empire is colluding with the AD.

 

The Empire is split now. the Empire will be split no matter who wins. The only hope is in the spirit of the people.

Edited June 2, 2012 by MacSuibhne

[landy8]

What did he say? My whole 1st game went wonky after completing the Civil War (for the Imperials) and I reinstalled and started over before I scoped out any changes in attitude.

 

You should really try the topic I mentioned and linked. It's all there. Read and have fun! :wink:

 

 

 

As for Tidus44... I don't even want to answer that s***.

[trukittn]

No worries, Landy8, I'll do it.

 

A buncha insult-laden hogwash.

 

Spoken like someone who really doesn't have any idea what's going on in the game at all, if you ask me. I know you didn't but I typed it anyway. I notice a trend in the hardcore pro-Empire crowd to ignore actual facts in the game, and rely on baseless insults and horribly one-sided views to argue their opinions with. Its fine if you're a die-hard Imperial, but at least get your facts straight if you're gonna get up on a soapbox with it. Ya'll spout this nonsense about Ulfric being a racist coward. Meanwhile Tulius does nothing but talk down on the Nords and hide behind Rikke. Nothing Ulfric himself says or does can be deemed particularly racist and Ulfric never surrenders, even with the sword of the Dragonborn at his throat.

 

Tulius on the other hand... does try to surrender in his final moments. Hardly a surprise, given the disturbingly yellow colored bellies of the Empire that sent him there.

 

As Ulfric said, The Empire I knew never surrendered.

 

And to those who still believe that a United Empire can beat the Thalmor, I ask you, "What Empire?" Do you really know what's left? There isn't much of an Empire to speak of any more. That Empire needs Skyrim much more than she needs them. And so, why should Skyrim's warriors leave their fates in the hands of the ones that sold their beliefs to the Elves?

 

As arrogant as its gonna sound, I can't help but believe that anyone who supports the Imperial side of the war really has no idea who they've joined up with. I've seen the outcomes of both sides winning (I can't bring myself to actually play through the Empire side, mind you, but I did my homework and some good old fashioned youtube-browsing for what I wouldn't see in my own game.) and there isn't a helluva lot at this point that could convince me that siding with the Empire is the right thing to do - even if Ulfric -were- the racist jackass that a lot of people claim he is.

[kaindjinn]

This is now getting harder to decide. Some people are saying the Empire has a better shot defeating the Thalmor, some people say the Stormcloaks do. That distinction is really where I make my ultimate decision.

[trukittn]

This is now getting harder to decide. Some people are saying the Empire has a better shot defeating the Thalmor, some people say the Stormcloaks do. That distinction is really where I make my ultimate decision.

 

 

Its my opinion that anyone with the conviction to do so can defeat the Thalmor. The Empire lacks that conviction, as made apparent by that treaty. If they hadn't signed that, none of this would have happened. Hammerfell would still be part of that Empire, and Skyrim's warriors wouldn't of come home to find that the Emperor they just got done bleeding for had sold their traditions to keep his throne and "buy time." Total rubbish, that.

 

The Empire's bruisers like to say that they are the only ones standing between Skyrim and the Dominion. I say they are the ones who opened the doors and let them in.

[landy8]

No worries, Landy8, I'll do it.

 

Thank you very much!

I really have no energy left for it. I don't even complain that some people don't read the related topics, but not to read the topic where they are posting!..

 

Like I said, I hate racists! And I have a good reason. But so does Ulfric! And Tullius does not! Remember the beginning of the game with Tullius having a lovely chat with Thalmor?

 

Pity that some people forget or ignore the facts they see with their own eyes! :facepalm:

 

trukittn, thanks again!

[fraquar]

Remember this, EVERY empire is a coalition that is dependent on it's member nations. This empire would rather throw their members under the bus at every given opportunity to maintain their political necessity.

 

Hammerfell didn't need the Empire.

Skyrim doesn't need the Empire.