Difficulties with sound in GECK

[Asterra]

My joke golf club mod used a lot of PlaceAtMe with markers and it causes CTDs as well, so that has to be it.

 

Right now, I feel like the FO3/NV engine just inherently doesn't handle this combination well.

 

For you however, would a MoveTo with a single X marker work? I don't know the exact function of that script segment you posted, but knowing what your mod does, I'm assuming it would suffice to use just one that gets moved a lot.

 

Theoretically not impossible to do it that way, but would necessitate basically having an xMarker "pet" at all times, and I'm already nervous enough when it comes to using them.

 

Also, if you're using events, PlaceAtMe takes more than a frame to process and has caused several of us problems in the past.

 

I feel like this may be inaccurate. I don't wait at all before playing a sound directly from the xMarker after spawning it in, and the sound plays with 100% reliability, which it simply wouldn't if there was nothing to play it from. But what could definitely be happening is that it does, once in a blue moon, take longer than a frame. And that my mod's attempt to immediately move it / play a sound from it is what causes the CTD. I don't know if checking for the xMarker's 3D would be a way to ensure it's ready, because from what I can tell, doing that check returns "yes" 100% of the time, and that may simply be because there is no 3D.

 

Another possibility is that because MarkForDelete doesn't actually work on mod-added forms, it's confusing the engine to do it so many times.

 

If I'm understanding the distinction correctly, this shouldn't matter, since xMarker isn't a form I created. But if you mean references added by a mod, I only have the wiki to go by on this:

 

 

 

References created during gameplay, such as those dropped by an actor or something created with the PlaceAtMe function, are truly deleted. They no longer exist in any way.

 

 

And most interesting, I was taking your word for it that this sound-doubling stuff is in the game, assuming it was really subtle and I just hadn't played with the volume up in so long I'd forgotten what exactly it sounds like. Well...I watched your video and there is absolutely no way that's a standard occurrence in my game.

 

I feel pretty confident in suggesting that I haven't been using unique versions of the game all these years (on 360 and PC). Most people don't notice these subtle problems to the point that they find themselves questioning why it happens. If they did, the issues wouldn't have still needed fixing eight years after release. Remember, one of them only happens when you open the same container twice or more, one only happens on a couple of containers in the game if you go nuts opening and closing them, and one (the thing with doors frequently playing two different sounds simultaneously) is arguably just a sound aesthetics quibble, and certainly not the kind of thing the average player would even pick up on. Just about the only issue that most people are likely to have at least noticed is the blatant, heavily delayed sound echo you get with some containers. The ammo box in my video, for example. There are no two ways about that one: It's there in the NIF and it's there in the GECK, therefore it will play twice, full stop.

[EPDGaffney]

Indeed, the combination of loads of PlaceAtMe X markers seems to be a problem for the engine. The rest of what I was saying was more speculation on what could be the reason behind it, but it seems clear to me that the 'pet' X marker idea would be a good thing to try. I have many sections in my quest mod that use this technique and have had no problems. I made AI for corpses based on pet X markers and MoveToNode, and it runs almost every frame, on maybe twenty corpses, with one X marker moving all over the room to each one to emulate deranged crawling and the occasional attempt at standing or lunging towards the player. There is no performance impact and it has never crashed in countless hours of testing over several months with several load orders and several saves.

 

I forget the peculiarities of 3D and forms with marker data for the editor (including things like triggers and collision boxes as well). I'm pretty sure it always considers this type of thing to have its 3D loaded. Still, PlaceAtMe definitely takes more than a frame to finish. It's just that some aspects get done before others. So, you can play a sound from the location where the marker will be because its 3D location is the first thing that the game engine processes (assuming I remember this right), but you can't move the marker until the PlaceAtMe function has finished, which takes more than a frame. That was the obstacle in Momentum. Well, that and tracking down that it even was something that was happening.

 

I meant mod-added references are not truly deleted, yeah, but you're right about PlaceAtMe, which I forgot about. Sorry for that.

 

I played this game pre-patch on the 360, so if this sound bug was there, it was probably the least of my worries, is my guess. I did play with the radio on pretty much all the time. Regarding the PC version, I don't know, I've played for about 2,000 hours and have never noticed this. I've definitely opened a reference for each of the container forms more than once in that time. But knowing it's only a couple of them does make it seem more like something I may have missed or forgotten about. I'd say the vast majority of my logged time is testing mods, though, and I tend to have the volume quiet for that. I'll certainly check the next time I turn it on, after I rework a few scripts to test.

[Asterra]

Indeed, the combination of loads of PlaceAtMe X markers seems to be a problem for the engine. The rest of what I was saying was more speculation on what could be the reason behind it, but it seems clear to me that the 'pet' X marker idea would be a good thing to try. I have many sections in my quest mod that use this technique and have had no problems.

 

Here's the thing about this. I'm remembering a bit more about my efforts on this in FO3. I think it was an attempt to make Empty or Not Empty work. I believe I remember switching to a pet xMarker system, finding it to work more reliably, but then being flatly unable to solve the issue of player cell transition. No matter what I tried, messing about with xMarkers always caused CTDs when it or the player needed to do cell transitions. I'm probably going to leave the mod as-is, since I'm out of free time for a while anyway.

 

but you can't move the marker until the PlaceAtMe function has finished, which takes more than a frame.

 

So if I get that itch again, the solution will be to create the xMarker at a more arbitrary instant, like when one of the trouble containers hits the crosshair, and then enforce a few-frame rule on executing the rest of the steps before playing the sound, even if the player somehow wins that race. Something to do later.

 

I'll certainly check the next time I turn it on, after I rework a few scripts to test.

 

The fast double sound should be easy to discern when opening a container a second time, as long as the opening sound has some punch and isn't subtle itself. The blatant echo can be heard, for convenience's sake, from the ammo box in Victor's shack. The multi-sound issue with doors is a little more obvious and it's just a matter of recognizing that two sounds are being simultaneously called upon. I did preserve this phenomenon on a very small number of "doors" in the game since taking it away would have legitimately reduced the overall effect.