Rant against easiness and "cool factor"

[Nowsirius]

For a second there, I thought I'd miss-clicked and wandered into the WoW forums... *sigh* I guess games change, people don't.

[Stemin]

 

Thats why i wrote, we, you are contradicting yourself by saying "no we dont" and then you talk about a single person..to me this sounds more of an excuse, because you are aware i wasnt talking about an individual here, but its esier to just say no we cant.

 

In my opinion more and more people are starting to be aware that games can now be more then just killing time, they can be intelligent, let you feel emotions, simply forget you are playing a game.

 

I think slowly the game companies will have to change this neverending milking and start to expand and evolve the gameplay more, just like they do with graphics.

 

You're allowed to think whatever you want to. The trend is going in the other direction.

[Relativelybest]

I'll be honest - I'm Level 48 and playing at Adept, and I'm still getting my ass kicked on a regular basis, even when I put on my good armor and use my stronger weapons, which is not at all the attire I prefer to actually wear. I don't want to run around Skyrim in my heavily enchanted dragonscale armor and crazy twinked out daedric greatsword on a constant basis just to survide. Sure, I could easily make a whole suit of enchanted Legendary Daedric Armor if I wanted to, but here's the thing: I don't like having to dress like a bad guy. I want my character to look, you know, heroic. I want to fight falmer and draugr deathlords and dragons wearing my favourite mage robes and weilding dwarf weapons. I really liked the dwarf weapons, but their actual usefullness sort of sailed right me by a long time ago and I never really got to enjoy them. And I have to go to extreme lenghts overclocking my already maxed out smithing skill just to get my favourite weapon, the Ghostblade, to remain reasonably damaging against the more mediocre enemies.

 

Money? I constantly find myself on the verge of bankrupsy, even though I pick up and sell everything I can carry. Huge damage? Ha! Half the time I have to hack away at my enemies for an eternety and consume a huge amount of potions, or run away while casting healing spells on myself, or trick my opponent into some kind of trap where they can't reach me while I fill them with arrows, because said opponent is capable of killing me in like four or five goddamned hits. Logging hours to become stronger? A huge chunk of my playthrough so far has been devoted to mindless, fun-killing grinding just to max out various skill trees and I still don't feel that much more powerful. Shouts? Well, I wouldn't say they need to be stronger, but I do wish the game would let me enchant gear with Fortify Shout, dammit, because the cooldown times in relation to their usefulness are for the most part ludicrous even when wearing the Talos amulet.

 

What is this easy game you guys are talking about and where can I find it? Because, honestly, this is not my idea of fun. In fact, I think I'll try lowering the difficulty the next time I play to see if I'll enjoy myself more that way.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Relativelybest

[jet4571]

I use TGM and go full godmode, I have a weapon that will 1 hit kill anything, 4 followers that are invulnerable, and I quite enjoy playing Skyrim with no challenging enemies or fights. but then again to me an enemy that is a "challenge" is just a longer lasting nuisance to get past because I dont play for the combat especially SP combat(hit harder and more HP, same tactics as a lvl 1 NPC... Yay for dull). If I were to play for combat and a challenge it would be PVP and a classic FPS game without upgrades and perks and skill alone is what makes a winner and not what gear you have. To me a challenging game is figuring out puzzles to open a door so I can continue like the Myst series, A challenge is having to use your brain to keep going. Single player combat.. bored after the third NPC annoyed after the 30th, sick of it after the 100th.

 

I play Skyrim for the story I make of it, for the discovery of new places, finding odd little things here and there, to enjoy what some modder adds to the game. combat? Nope couldn't care less if the next patch removed it altogether. And i dont use a console. hate them lol. So OP, have a problem with me?

[3WINTERS]

I use TGM and go full godmode, I have a weapon that will 1 hit kill anything, 4 followers that are invulnerable, and I quite enjoy playing Skyrim with no challenging enemies or fights. but then again to me an enemy that is a "challenge" is just a longer lasting nuisance to get past because I dont play for the combat especially SP combat(hit harder and more HP, same tactics as a lvl 1 NPC... Yay for dull). If I were to play for combat and a challenge it would be PVP and a classic FPS game without upgrades and perks and skill alone is what makes a winner and not what gear you have. To me a challenging game is figuring out puzzles to open a door so I can continue like the Myst series, A challenge is having to use your brain to keep going. Single player combat.. bored after the third NPC annoyed after the 30th, sick of it after the 100th.

 

I play Skyrim for the story I make of it, for the discovery of new places, finding odd little things here and there, to enjoy what some modder adds to the game. combat? Nope couldn't care less if the next patch removed it altogether. And i dont use a console. hate them lol. So OP, have a problem with me?

 

Now here is a gamer I can relate to lol. Though I'm probably boring, I spent hours yesterday doing the crop picking, heavy labour thing. I'm not acting like I avoid combat but when I get into that, I make it easy. Nothing more annoying than an enemy needing ten arrows in the head to bring him/her down

[dwellufool]

I don't know why people are so insistent on making their characters weak and insignificant.

 

That's how I live my life every f***in' day.

 

I play games to be a bolstering badass, granted I do enjoy a decent challenge. I play expert with no OP chants or smithing to 1 shot things.

[3WINTERS]

To me a challenge would be trying to avoid getting killed in one shot of an arrow or a well placed strike and having the enemy face the same conditions rather than having to hack at an unarmoured body for several moments

[tredmillion]

personally i use a lot of mods, many of which tweak the game to be harder, but personally i find that once you master attack block and shield bash there really isnt much any mod can do to make the game harder :P i mean i generally use pretty wimpy gear, for instance i like using the iron sword cause i like how it looks :P....i spose when you get really good you just think, screw ultimate stats, i wanna look cool. so thats my playstyle, i've done pretty much everything there is to do, fought with pretty much every method, so now i just wander, kill new things with new weapons and look frickin badass.

 

but yes i do agree with the whole easiness and serial dumbing down of games in general over the last few years, its really starting to take the p***, i only hope that the games industry comes back to hardcore gaming instead of this silly casual fad :P (not that i dont understand the whole casual thing, it just aint my style)

[jet4571]

I use TGM and go full godmode, I have a weapon that will 1 hit kill anything, 4 followers that are invulnerable, and I quite enjoy playing Skyrim with no challenging enemies or fights. but then again to me an enemy that is a "challenge" is just a longer lasting nuisance to get past because I dont play for the combat especially SP combat(hit harder and more HP, same tactics as a lvl 1 NPC... Yay for dull). If I were to play for combat and a challenge it would be PVP and a classic FPS game without upgrades and perks and skill alone is what makes a winner and not what gear you have. To me a challenging game is figuring out puzzles to open a door so I can continue like the Myst series, A challenge is having to use your brain to keep going. Single player combat.. bored after the third NPC annoyed after the 30th, sick of it after the 100th.

 

I play Skyrim for the story I make of it, for the discovery of new places, finding odd little things here and there, to enjoy what some modder adds to the game. combat? Nope couldn't care less if the next patch removed it altogether. And i dont use a console. hate them lol. So OP, have a problem with me?

 

Now here is a gamer I can relate to lol. Though I'm probably boring, I spent hours yesterday doing the crop picking, heavy labour thing. I'm not acting like I avoid combat but when I get into that, I make it easy. Nothing more annoying than an enemy needing ten arrows in the head to bring him/her down

 

Boring? maybe for the majority. though i dont care for chopping wood and harvesting crops. i feel so used after doing it knowing they never do it. but still to each there own. I just hate the idea of combat against an NPC. I have yet to play a game where each instance of combat was new and unique unless it was multiplayer. Skyrim, hold a shield up in the block position. ALLL melee enemies bash away at it like that shield is going to give out candy very soon and i am supposed to make a racist remark about sombreros... it just gets retarded when that "boss" does the same thing as the first bandit inept idiot you met. all archers.. constant annoying sound of arrows missing or hitting. mages.. yeah play chase if you are a melee character, otherwise just shoot the annoying smacktard.

 

Combat and NPC are 2 different things I think you cannot get in today's games. but then again i play FPS games in PvP for combat and all NPC's are dull to me.

[AngEviL]

I use TGM and go full godmode, I have a weapon that will 1 hit kill anything, 4 followers that are invulnerable, and I quite enjoy playing Skyrim with no challenging enemies or fights. but then again to me an enemy that is a "challenge" is just a longer lasting nuisance to get past because I dont play for the combat especially SP combat(hit harder and more HP, same tactics as a lvl 1 NPC... Yay for dull). If I were to play for combat and a challenge it would be PVP and a classic FPS game without upgrades and perks and skill alone is what makes a winner and not what gear you have. To me a challenging game is figuring out puzzles to open a door so I can continue like the Myst series, A challenge is having to use your brain to keep going. Single player combat.. bored after the third NPC annoyed after the 30th, sick of it after the 100th.

 

I play Skyrim for the story I make of it, for the discovery of new places, finding odd little things here and there, to enjoy what some modder adds to the game. combat? Nope couldn't care less if the next patch removed it altogether. And i dont use a console. hate them lol. So OP, have a problem with me?

 

This is the reply i was looking for, from one of the players that does the opposite things of how i made my Skyrim experience to be, haha. I feel the same about puzzles and exploration and seeing what mods add, but i strongly disagree about combat meaning nothing. I don't mean to flame you, it is that i think when the combat is main part of making a game like Skyrim fun. Combat mechanics in Skyrim are simple, but to me it is enjoyable still with a greatly upped difficulty, that i have to think when to bash, when to power attack, when to block, when to run, to manage my potions, to manage the skill points. The first thing i did when i got Skyrim was to up the difficulty with my mods and custom mods and remove bloom.

 

In my opinion more and more people are starting to be aware that games can now be more then just killing time, they can be intelligent, let you feel emotions, simply forget you are playing a game.

 

I think slowly the game companies will have to change this neverending milking and start to expand and evolve the gameplay more, just like they do with graphics.

 

I agree and I am on your side on your arguments against Glhadiator, but in my opinion unfortunately this is not the case with new games. It seems that the strategy of milking consumers work, so i don't see things changing in good, so at the least i voice my opinion and in this case Skyrim.

 

I'll be honest - I'm Level 48 and playing at Adept, and I'm still getting my ass kicked on a regular basis, even when I put on my good armor and use my stronger weapons, which is not at all the attire I prefer to actually wear. I don't want to run around Skyrim in my heavily enchanted dragonscale armor and crazy twinked out daedric greatsword on a constant basis just to survide. Sure, I could easily make a whole suit of enchanted Legendary Daedric Armor if I wanted to, but here's the thing: I don't like having to dress like a bad guy. I want my character to look, you know, heroic. [...]

 

Money? I constantly find myself on the verge of bankrupsy, even though I pick up and sell everything I can carry. Huge damage? Ha! Half the time I have to hack away at my enemies for an eternety and consume a huge amount of potions, or run away while casting healing spells on myself, or trick my opponent into some kind of trap where they can't reach me while I fill them with arrows, because said opponent is capable of killing me in like four or five goddamned hits. Logging hours to become stronger? A huge chunk of my playthrough so far has been devoted to mindless, fun-killing grinding just to max out various skill trees and I still don't feel that much more powerful. [...]

 

What is this easy game you guys are talking about and where can I find it? Because, honestly, this is not my idea of fun. In fact, I think I'll try lowering the difficulty the next time I play to see if I'll enjoy myself more that way.

 

Like Michio2013 said before in the thread, another thing is to use lower end equipment. I don't do this because i find it fun in trying hard to survive and build the best strategy, which is why i had to eliminate all player abuses with mine or other mods, like no enchantments or potions that increase the smithing, alchemy and enchanting skill, and nerf a big part of the skills. The vanilla Skyrim is very easy. You sell a few things and by level 5 you are at 10k gold already. Most enemies are deleveled, and the maximum level enemies are fairly low, with the average maximum level enemy being level 30. The best perks give big bonuses to the player, the whole Skyrim vanilla perk tree is unbalanced. And in general, things die fast and kill you slow. On vanilla if you create some potions or enchant or smith items and sell them you have money to buy all the potions from all the vendors in skyrim. I am unsure why it is hard for some people, but to me, on master things died fast and dealt low damage, but i did block and bash and dodged attacks.

 

I don't know why people are so insistent on making their characters weak and insignificant.

 

That's how I live my life every f***in' day.

 

I play games to be a bolstering badass, granted I do enjoy a decent challenge. I play expert with no OP chants or smithing to 1 shot things.

 

To me a challenge is to die and reload the game and try a different strategy. Yes, i have no desire to be a "bolstering badass", but i have no fun in being that, it is about feeling "accomplishments" by beating something hard.

 

personally i use a lot of mods, many of which tweak the game to be harder, but personally i find that once you master attack block and shield bash there really isnt much any mod can do to make the game harder :P i mean i generally use pretty wimpy gear, for instance i like using the iron sword cause i like how it looks :P....i spose when you get really good you just think, screw ultimate stats, i wanna look cool. so thats my playstyle, i've done pretty much everything there is to do, fought with pretty much every method, so now i just wander, kill new things with new weapons and look frickin badass.

 

but yes i do agree with the whole easiness and serial dumbing down of games in general over the last few years, its really starting to take the p***, i only hope that the games industry comes back to hardcore gaming instead of this silly casual fad :P (not that i dont understand the whole casual thing, it just aint my style)

 

In my custom mod i modified bash greatly. It does almost no damage, it costs 10 stamina, and it has a low chance of staggering an enemy while not attacking. And attributes at level up give 5 points, not 10, and also i nerfed all the enchantments including the health and stamina is. The point is that with a limited stamina, and with a bash that mostly staggers only attacking enemies, and which deals almost no damage, you have to strategize the battles. Yes, that is skyrim for me, haha, few potions, few bash attacks. I also decreased the backwards run speed, so it is hard to dodge blows. In my game, you need to think how close you want to be an enemy, and time blocks, and other than blocking, run backwards immediately, because there is no time to dodge an attack once the enemy swings.

 

And this leads to other things, since it was advantageous to have a fast attacking weapon, so you can hit the enemy between blocks, or to hit fast and then go backwards, then i hand modified all the weapons in Skyim. I made custom attack times and i use a mathematical formula to make the damage relate to weapons range and attack speed.

 

Here is the table i use for iron weapons:

iron weight dmg reach speed stagger dps range1 slow+ misc+

dagger 4.7 046.90 0.65 1.3437 0.138 63.017 10.000 6.3017

waraxe 5.9 058.61 0.70 1.1197 0.180 65.628 9.6429 6.8058

sword 6.4 064.45 0.95 0.9331 0.234 60.139 8.1818 7.3503

mace 9.5 095.05 0.75 0.7776 0.304 73.908 9.3103 7.9383

battleaxe 15.3 153.10 1.05 0.6480 0.592 99.207 7.7143 8.5734 1.5

greatsword 17.4 173.61 1.30 0.5400 0.769 93.750 6.7500 9.2593 1.5

warhammer 25.0 250.00 1.10 0.4500 1.000 112.50 7.5000 10.000 1.5

 

The range is related to the weapon reach. this means that a dagger deals 100% of damage at 0.65 reach. A mace at 0.75 reach deals 93.103% damage, a greatsword at 1.30 reach deals 67.50% damage. Regarding weapon speed, each 20% increase in weapon speed decreases the overall damage of a weapon by 8%, multiplicatively. A warhammer deals 100% of the damage, while a waraxe with a 2.49 faster attack speed deals 68.058% of the damage. Two handed weapon have a 5"miscellaneous" 50% damage bonus. The dps is the damage per second, which is the range, attack speed and misc bonuses multiplied. Then you divide the dps by the attack speed and you get the weapon damage per swing for iron weapons. Each class of weapons deals 8% more damage than the class before, multiplicatively. As you can see an iron mace deals 95 damage per blow, and i do this to fine tune the weapon damage, and then i scale it back to roughly vanilla levels by decreasing global weapon damage variables in CK, and it ends up being around a sixth of that amount.