Modding a mod: abysmally foolishing question inside

[Vylayan]

As I have been lead to understand, the modding system used in Skyrim (continual overwrite/last-in wins). This seems to be the case with many mods that move or replace objects around the world such that the order you load them causes wonderful or catastrophic effects alternately. However, I seem to be misunderstanding something (no doubt stupefyingly obvious) and I just can't convince myself to just-kludge-it-and-move-on.

 

There is a mod that I like -most- of but it needs some tweaks. I know, I could just modify the base code and be happy however it is under active support and I don't want to have to re-make the tweaks every time it's updated. I thought an ancillary module would be the ideal solution, and for some things it has been. I've edited or re-written scripts and those work just peachy. However, when it comes to anything else, the results are inconsistent.

 

Is it simply impossible to change the nature / position of objects generated by another 3rd party mod? (I've found that my miskeys have happily -- read: painfully -- modified the world rather easily) After verifying that the objects in question have no scripting references, only marker assignments, I've tried to delete them, move them, disable them, even disable them via script (for which I seem unable to get or set their enablement state).

 

(I've tried to find an answer but the tutorials don't seem to touch on that (or I've errantly skimmed over it). I've some experience modding Bethedsa games but it's been since Oblivion that I did it in earnest but even then never tried to do what I'm doing here. Feel free to laugh if it's warranted, just answer me as well :) )

[Ghaunadaur]

Generally it should be possible to make changes to a mod by another mod. What I can tell from my limited modding knowledge:

If the objects in question are enabled by a parent object, they can't get disabled by a script. This is from the Wiki page:

 

 

The Disable call will fail if the object has an EnableParent. Objects with EnableParents can never be enabled or disabled through script.

 

What you can try to get rid of those objects, assign them to another enable parent (marker), which is initially disabled and never gets enabled.

 

Unsure, if this is was you're asking for, but maybe it helps.

[Vylayan]

Generally it should be possible to make changes to a mod by another mod. What I can tell from my limited modding knowledge:

If the objects in question are enabled by a parent object, they can't get disabled by a script.

 

What you can try to get rid of those objects, assign them to another enable parent (marker), which is initially disabled and never gets enabled.

 

With regards to parent references, I've previously tried:

- removing the parent reference and placing as 'inactive'

- enabling/disabling the marker the objects were attached to (i.e., objA -> markerB (enabled)) However, I can not get the state of the parent. When I try, the .IsEnabled() is always false (even when enabled) and when truly disabled, it can not be enabled.

- change the parent of the offending object (objA) to be a marker of my own (thus allowing me to enable/disable at will). I *thought* this worked in a test I did -- was rather happy about it -- but when trying it in earnest tonight, I found that the reassignment-of-parent simply didn't work in-game, or at least objA refused to obey.

- I even tried something simpler, like changing the opposite-of-parent property, leaving it assigned to it's 3rd-party-mod parent, but that didn't work either.

 

What worries me is that I can't even change location properties -- moving it from these coords to those coords. Regardless of enablement, I would think I'd be able to change their location/orientation but I can't even do that.

 

Edit: Just to ensure I hadn't lost my mind, I did a test with the following:

1 create a marker (disabled)

2 reassign the activation parent of ObjA to the marker

3 save, check in-game, note ObjA not disabled

4 reload CK, check ObjA: activation parent -not changed-, marker has no children.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Vylayan

[Ghaunadaur]

If the parent object itself gets enabled by a script (i.e. part of a quest), the enabled status may be stored in the savegame. To disable it again, can cause weird issues, even crash the game. I also messed with it and I was also unable to change the location of the child object. The only thing that worked was to assign it to another enable parent.

 

Just read your edit: Do the object actually have an activate parent or enable parent? I thought you meant enable parent.

[Vylayan]

If the parent object itself gets enabled by a script (i.e. part of a quest), the enabled status may be stored in the savegame. To disable it again, can cause weird issues, even crash the game. I also messed with it and I was also unable to change the location of the child object. The only thing that worked was to assign it to another enable parent.

 

Just read your edit: Do the object actually have an activate parent or enable parent? I thought you meant enable parent.

 

Sorry, I used the terms interchangably. "Activate Parents" list is empty; "Enable Parent" is what I've been modifying.

 

The enabled state is remembered by the save game however, in this case, a disable of it doesn't harm anything (the parent mod itself enables/disables in the same manner I am attempting).

 

I only wish I knew why the reassignment-of-enable-parent doesn't seem to get saved by the CK.

[Ghaunadaur]

That's strange, for me it worked. Just a guess: maybe the original mod is not set as master file to your mod?

[Vylayan]

That's strange, for me it worked. Just a guess: maybe the original mod is not set as master file to your mod?

 

I made -some- progress. I forced a re-dl of the CK and it looks like I'm on the right version of the CK now -- I hate steam sometimes. So now it remembers the redirection of enablement parent in the CK but the game doesn't represent it (though I did manage to introduce a CTD)

 

Funny you should ask about master files... I noticed that the original mod isn't listed as a Parent Master some time ago and thought it was rather odd but couldn't figure out how to force the original mod to be viewed as such. I've been searching through the CK wiki but so far haven't run across the method for doing that yet (and wouldn't mind a prod in the right direction)

Edited July 1, 2012 by Vylayan