Completely Remove Bottle Caps for True Bartering

[ASatanicPanda]

So I've tossed around this idea for a little while. What if I removed bottle caps from trading entirely? It puts a lot more emphases of scavenging and forces you to actually give up something for say, food or ammo. NCR and Legion currency could stay. But to the modders out their, do my bidding?

[senterpat]

So I've tossed around this idea for a little while. What if I removed bottle caps from trading entirely? It puts a lot more emphases of scavenging and forces you to actually give up something for say, food or ammo. NCR and Legion currency could stay. But to the modders out their, do my bidding?

 

You want to remove them from the game entirely or just from the barter menu? It'd be easy enough to remove the players caps anytime they were bartering, so that even if you had 20000 caps, you couldnt spend any. And modifying the vendors to not have caps would be simple too, but what would you do with all the caps you find?

[Overwatch17]

removing the caps entirely isn't a good idea. BUT making the barter system function as it did in the classic games would be better. in the classic barter system money wasn't automatically counted into the trade and had the function of supplementary trade item just like the Legion coins or the NCR dollars in NV. if you wanted to buy a pistol worth 500 caps or NCR coins (depending on F1 or F2) you had to offer something with the same value or worth more. and if you didn't have the item(s) with the same value you could always throw in some money to counter. either from the vendor's side or from yours Edited July 10, 2012 by Overwatch17

[ASatanicPanda]

So I've tossed around this idea for a little while. What if I removed bottle caps from trading entirely? It puts a lot more emphases of scavenging and forces you to actually give up something for say, food or ammo. NCR and Legion currency could stay. But to the modders out their, do my bidding?

 

You want to remove them from the game entirely or just from the barter menu? It'd be easy enough to remove the players caps anytime they were bartering, so that even if you had 20000 caps, you couldnt spend any. And modifying the vendors to not have caps would be simple too, but what would you do with all the caps you find?

 

And that's what I want more of, item trading. Who the hell carries 20,000 caps around as spending money? It would make more sense to carry around an assault rifle for trading then 20,000 bottle caps. As for the caps... Seriously deflate their value and stupidly increase their rarity? I can find 35 caps in the back of my shoe, and the druggies in Freeside tell me they can't get enough money for their Psycho? Pfffshhh, the game's whole economy needs a serious overhaul. When one person is more valuable then the whole Crimson Caravan, then something is wrong there.

 

Maybe the mod could slash the player's caps to a 50th of it original size? Or just start a new game.

[Cyberlazy]

Agreed. What I think the problem is, weapons are just TOO expensive: Everyones got one, So you haul in 20 weapons and you are rich as hell.

Sure, they are poor quality, but that only serves to make the enemy even more pathetic and easier to kill.

 

Id love to see what would happen if weapons where MUCH cheaper, but also degraded a lot faster but came in higher qualitys on enemies. You might be forced to switch weapons more often and be more willing to buy/repair your weapon, or even *GASP* drop a weapon!

 

Food, drugs, weapon repair kits, etc could be more expensive to act as a cap drain, along with some overhauls to the loot table so that every other desk does not have 100~1000 caps in it...

[senterpat]

OK so here's what I'm thinking, when the player enters the barter menu, all his caps are removed, and replaced with alternate caps(these caps will be different, and treated the same as ncr and legion money)( I'm considering making the bottlecaps slightly less valuable in the barter menu, maybe just .9 instead of 1). The player can use the caps to buy stuff, but the vendor will have no real caps, and very few alternate caps.

Items from the vendor will cost more, and it will be harder for you to get a fair price.

 

But, I had this idea that I'm pretty sure is possible, but I have to look in to. But basically what I want to do is add territorial value(TV), meaning that a gecko hide and meat would be worth less in goodsprings, but worth a lot on the strip, where it's harder to get them. I have a few ideas for items that can have TV. As well as a few vendors who will pay more for stuff.

 

 

Items:

 

Vendors:

Mr. Holdout (trading him your hold out weapons will be more effective then trying to trade food or clothing)

[ASatanicPanda]

OK so here's what I'm thinking, when the player enters the barter menu, all his caps are removed, and replaced with alternate caps(these caps will be different, and treated the same as ncr and legion money)( I'm considering making the bottlecaps slightly less valuable in the barter menu, maybe just .9 instead of 1). The player can use the caps to buy stuff, but the vendor will have no real caps, and very few alternate caps.

Items from the vendor will cost more, and it will be harder for you to get a fair price.

 

But, I had this idea that I'm pretty sure is possible, but I have to look in to. But basically what I want to do is add territorial value(TV), meaning that a gecko hide and meat would be worth less in goodsprings, but worth a lot on the strip, where it's harder to get them. I have a few ideas for items that can have TV. As well as a few vendors who will pay more for stuff.

 

 

Items:

 

Vendors:

Mr. Holdout (trading him your hold out weapons will be more effective then trying to trade food or clothing)

 

That's a pretty good, an active supply and demand system. Maybe when you try and sell for guns to a bartender they can give you a crap trade value. Or if they have a ton of ammo and no stimpaks, they would deflate and inflate in value respectively.

[senterpat]

OK so here's what I'm thinking, when the player enters the barter menu, all his caps are removed, and replaced with alternate caps(these caps will be different, and treated the same as ncr and legion money)( I'm considering making the bottlecaps slightly less valuable in the barter menu, maybe just .9 instead of 1). The player can use the caps to buy stuff, but the vendor will have no real caps, and very few alternate caps.

Items from the vendor will cost more, and it will be harder for you to get a fair price.

 

But, I had this idea that I'm pretty sure is possible, but I have to look in to. But basically what I want to do is add territorial value(TV), meaning that a gecko hide and meat would be worth less in goodsprings, but worth a lot on the strip, where it's harder to get them. I have a few ideas for items that can have TV. As well as a few vendors who will pay more for stuff.

 

 

Items:

 

Vendors:

Mr. Holdout (trading him your hold out weapons will be more effective then trying to trade food or clothing)

That's odd I had edited this :P

 

Ya I had said that gun vendors will value guns more, but everything else less(except gun related stuff, such as mods, powders etc. While a place like bitter springs will have more value for ready to eat foods and clothing(cuz of the "refugees") And the stop n slop would pay more for fresh meats and produce. Bartenders will pay more for alcohol. Chem will be cheaper if you get it from the source at Red Rock canyon.

 

Also Id like to make the players barter level more important, but not sure how I would incorporate that yet. (maybe bonus' at 25,50,75,100 that will expand the vendors list of items that they pay reasonable prices for.)

 

And places that have NCR vendors will have more NCR money, vice versa for legion (tho I cant think of any legion vendors and only like 3 NCR vendors for that matter.)

Maybe if you place NCR in control of Primm, Nash will have more NCR money, and have the same item value list as NCR vendors, places that are independent such as Novac will have a bit more use for caps than other faction money.

 

 

As for your idea of prices based of the number the vendor has, I don't know if that's possible... I'm not sure how I would do it anyways, since all the vendors stuff isnt on them, but in a containter usually hidden outside the walls. I'm not sure how the vendor references that container, and if I could reference the container by activating the vendor.

Edited July 10, 2012 by senterpat

[luthienanarion]

Ya I had said that gun vendors will value guns more, but everything else less(except gun related stuff, such as mods, powders etc. While a place like bitter springs will have more value for ready to eat foods and clothing(cuz of the "refugees") And the stop n slop would pay more for fresh meats and produce. Bartenders will pay more for alcohol. Chem will be cheaper if you get it from the source at Red Rock canyon.

 

Also Id like to make the players barter level more important, but not sure how I would incorporate that yet. (maybe bonus' at 25,50,75,100 that will expand the vendors list of items that they pay reasonable prices for.)

 

Create form lists of each item type you want to differentiate, and then add loops that iterate through each list to set the value of items in it using a multiplier (ie 1.2 or .7 or something, different for each list based on the merchant's preferences) to the dialogue result scripts before ShowBarterMenu. Afterward, you can iterate through the lists again to reverse the changes in item value so that you don't get unexpected values the next time you barter. You can figure in the player's barter skill in there somewhere when doing the math.

 

As for your idea of prices based of the number the vendor has, I don't know if that's possible... I'm not sure how I would do it anyways, since all the vendors stuff isnt on them, but in a containter usually hidden outside the walls. I'm not sure how the vendor references that container, and if I could reference the container by activating the vendor.

 

Using a MenuMode 1053 block will let you run scripts while in the barter menu to recalculate item value based on how many the vendor has (via GetItemCount on their merchant container). However, I don't think the menu would show the updated values until the inventory changed or the player switched inventory views.

[senterpat]

Ya I had the first part figured out. But I don't know how to reference the vendor container from the player activating the vendor.

Could I do something like this:

 

If reftrarget == gsTrudy

Set refcontainer to getisid trudyscontainer

 

Also using menumode has always disappointed me, it doesn't ever take effect when you want it to in my experience. I'll prolly be using an onactivate block