[LE] Npcs use illusion magic

[nikolaf]

Hi all,

 

I've made several spells in the magic schools and added them to leveled lists and such.

They work when the player casts them and everything is fine, but none of the npcs seem to use some of them in combat.

 

I've added one of the illusion spell's effects (silence) to a staff and still nothing. Not even once - the staff is fully charged when I loot the wizard's body.

Also noticed that some alteration spells are also finicky, like burden, npcs don't seem to use burdening spells, or my Staff of Burden, for that matter... :sad:

 

Is there a way to make npcs use these spells/staves, even though they are non-damaging magic? I hope that it isn't about dealing damage for targeted spells, because that would be stupid...

[SeraphimKensai]

I've been looking into NPCs using custom magic effects and I think there is likely a limitation in their AI that makes an NPC focus on either damage dealing, self buffing/healing/warding, and summoning spells.

 

Perhaps an AI spell package could be revamped or maybe there's a mod out there that does this. I'm unaware though if that's the case. But I do agree that it seems odd that I've never been feared from a fight via spell and my character uncontrollably runs away, or even gets paralyzed, or stats other than health are drained.

[nikolaf]

I agree that it would be tremendously limiting, especially since most non-destruction spells deal no damage. The only thing I can think of is adding a secondary effect to every spell that won't work, like a 0 point fire damage effect that is hidden in the UI and painless. The only other workaround is to add the Force AI script, but that only makes them use it at the start of combat, and sometimes it doesn't work ( npcs get staggered or loot body ).

 

Though you are wrong about paralysis, some do use that spell, though not as often as I'd like ( Though they mostly use staves. I also remember angering J'zargo once, he just kept paralyzing me until I died ). Actually that's probably the only illusion magic spell they will use. Even invisibility is out of the picture. Vampires are ironically the only self-preserving people in this game...

 

I get that they couldn't let the player get afraid or frenzied, because it would be very frustrating ( I played Neverwinter Nights, I know what I'm talking about :smile: ), but it looks as if Skyrim's magic AI is worse than Oblivion's...

 

Oblivion used silence very often, every wraith knew it, and I really liked it. It was the only proper way to teach mages a lesson. I also added all those missing fortify skill spells, which, in this case, are only usable by the player. I really hope they find a way to integrate all magic schools in the next Elder Scrolls in a more balanced manner. Skyrim has barely a dozen illusion and alteration spells, and restoration is basically "heal self, kill dead".

 

I've seen the Apocalypse Magic mod, but it somehow doesn't fit the lore with me, in a sense. And those special spells are still reserved only for the player, so it doesn't help there. I could make a list of all the spells I remade in the game, practically doubled their number :happy:

 

I'll try the zero damage effect method, maybe it'll work.

[SeraphimKensai]

Maybe the zero damage aspect might get them to cast the spell would be interesting to know. I don't remember Jzargo paralysing me, but I know Kematu will paralyze Saadia as part of a scene which uses a custom spell for the scene, and paralyze is in alteration as opposed to illusion.

 

Your right about campires, only NPC I've ever seen use invisibility, perhaps comparing their.ai packages vs a standard NPC wizard might reveal some insight.

 

Otherwise I'm not sure what kind of effects you're looking for necessarily to fit your sense of lore. I have an SE spell pack in Synthesis Redux that I've been working on that I've attempted to at least blend the effects that I have in with existing TES lore (aside of a reference here and there to Tolkien or the Never Ending Story). I've been working on attempting to rewrite a lot of my effects so that they can be redirected onto NPCs instead of the player to increase options for the player. That said it doesn't alter NPC AI though.

 

Best of luck figuring it out, as it would be cool to get hit with even a turn undead spell if I was a vampire based character or hit with some influence based spells.

[nikolaf]

You're right about paralysis being in alteration, my bad. Kematu does it in a script, so it does not really count. I'm not sure about AI packages, never edited them myself.

 

I was mostly looking for spells used in previous games, like absorb, blind, burden/feather, detect enchantment/key, dispel, fortify, nighteye, open lock, poison, slowfall, sound, spell absorption/reflection, fire/frost/shock touch, waterwalk, etc. ( levitation is banned, so it could be a little easter egg one, also making you receive a bounty when guards see you levitate :smile: )

 

And I never liked the idea of there only being one invisibilty and paralysis spell. Low level players won't be able to utilize them, and high level ones will probably stop using them altogether. Sure there is mass paralysis, but even that doesn't help ( tried it and lost all magicka in a single casting, while I waited for it to recover, the time passed ). In such a world as Tamriel, I believe there should be a lot of different spell "levels". I can imagine many weak mages making weaker variants of spells for their use, and some of the better ones being made into spell tomes for sale. If you've an aptitude for magic, but cannot or do not want to waste all of your magicka on a 10 second paralyze spell, you could buy a 3 second one, which would benefit you more, strong enough to just escape the axe, but weak enough to be castable twice/thrice, or saved for other spells. It might not be a large problem for some, if you've got a big spell cost reduction item, but it still looks as if it's missing more variety.

 

Though one of the possible reasons why the makers left so many types out was the shouts. You could technically do a lot with them, though when you get bored after doing everything - like I did - you play as a non-dragonborn character with an alternate start. If only they left spellmaking, I wouldn't have minded it too much...

 

Good luck with your mod, I know it can be frustrating when you bump into a limitation :wink:

 

P.S. Looked at your mod, it looks really great, though the naming convention might throw off some people. You could try blending it more with the vanilla names.

Resurrection seems to stand off from the rest, with its dual-nature, you could possibly split it into resurrect/harm for another spell slot, if you wish ( just a tip :smile:).

You should check the spells used in Neverwinter Nights/Baldur's Gate for a perfect viewpoint. For me, they are the best spells I could think of for a game like this.

Edited February 1, 2019 by nikolaf

[SeraphimKensai]

I definitely agree with the aspect of mages using weaker variants of spells that's why I made all those novice level cantrips of effects including a paralyze (mind you the duration starts so small that it's named stun). The cantrips grow in power or duration as you skill up rather than overloading the spell list with a lot of redundancy as if someone wasn't using skyUI it can take a really long time to find which spell you want. Otherwise a lot of those effects you listed I have in like open, dispel, fortifying effects, absorption, feather, water walking, I even have a make shift levitate (you just can't run around in the air).

 

My resurrection spell was themed along the lines of my Divine protection and Immortality spells, so since those are essentially switches with multiple casts, I made the resurrection spell behave similarly.

 

I am a fan of the baldur's gate/Neverwinter nights games as I play D&D when I get a chance, work, my wife, and my old d&d group moving around the country after college all help making playing impractical. My Xeroxio's Doppelgangers spell is kind of a blend between Mirror Image from D&D and Mediodas' Physicial Clone from the Seven Deadly Sins. Otherwise there's also a few absorb based spells as I have always liked games where I can debuff an enemy so shift their strength to mine.

 

I personally have a lot that I still want to do, as I've made a workplan of sorts that looks like I could be trying to make some spells probably well into the spring, and that's fine with me as it's kind of a hobby.

 

Thanks for checking out my mod and glad you like it. Otherwise if you have some ideas for specific effects let me know and I can try and figure out if its something I can make work. Cheers.

[nikolaf]

True, I use SkyUI so it doesn't bother me at all. I remember in Oblivion how I was overwhelmed with spells after a while, my inventory quickly became cluttered with random effects and scrolls.

 

I understand, it does fit quite nicely. Though what actors can you resurrect? I made a resurrect spell myself, with the reanimate animation, but disabled the effect on ash spawn, dwemer animunculi, quest npcs and undead. You can always reanimate the dead'uns with dead thrall :smile:

 

I love absorption, made those effects on daedric weapons and added them to the dremora. I was always puzzled by the designers' choice to level dremora equipment, they should always have daedric. They are only found in the shrine, anyway - a deadly confrontation!

 

I'm not sure about new effects, but you can check my mod, if you'd like. There's bound to be something that'll interest you. Only the esp file, because of permissions, and how I merged several mods and stuff. I'll send it to you if you want - though be wary, I've edited a LOT of stuff that ruffled my feathers in this game, you might get overwhelmed :wink: