Main Quest - how it should look like?

[nayakri]

Introduction to the topic - You don't have to read that if you don't want to

 

Greetings. I'm making this research because I decided to make a mod to Skyrim. It will basicly cover dialogues in order to creat more RPG feeling (giving more options, making the rush less important, prolonging all main guilds' questlines, etc.). As I went further with my drafts, I found out that I will have to alter many quests to make them more logical/interesting/rewarding.

 

I already made the Main Quest draft and started making another one for the Companions, but then it hit me that I am only one person - only one brain - so I thought about asking people what they are missing in Skyrim. I will start with the Main Quest, since the draft is already completed, so I can simply alter it later on.

 

Question

 

In manner of RPG and the game flow, or anything, what are you missing in the Main Quest? Is there something that makes no sense and should be altered? Is something happening too soon or without any reason for it? Is there something that should be in the Main Quest but doesn't?

 

Feel free to rant at the Main Quest as much as you want to - I will try to cover up every issue you will point out.

 

Still, I want to stick mostly to dialogues and quest issues - meaning: I'm not going to change item stats (except for those meant for 'good' rewards), I'm not going to change enemies, dungeons, player progression, etc.

 

What my finished draft includes?

 

 

- no fake rush = the quest will no longer make you run through the whole Skyrim in the span of a few days. Now, it will even require you to do something else for a few days or even weeks before it will progress.

- no immediate Thane = Balgruuf isn't an idiot and won't make a stranger his Thane out of blue. Now, you need to work for it. Hard.

- more options for Season Unending = just, seriously, more options, including slim possiblity of persuading both Ulfric and Tullius to shake their hands and turn their attention elswhere for the time of you trapping the dragon without giving them anything at all.

- possibility of questioning closing the gates against dragons

- dragon scales = one of the most valuable item in the game and none of NPC is making any use of them... no more!

- hero = people will treat you differently after saving Whiterun from the dragon. And even treat you better as you do other good things and gain more titles.

- special lessons from Arngeir = to make the Greybeards more useful.

- Delphine = she no longer gets through the dungeon that only the Dragonborn can get through, she no longer is a flat character, and no longer has no real answers. Short: attempt to make her an interesting person.

- Diplomatic Immunity = more options in general, dossiers now are useful, and some ideas in progress to make it more fun. Moreover, you won't need a fake identity if you are the Archmage or the Harbinger, because you are kind of a very important person in Skyrim, right?

- small tweaks with finding Esbern = nothing big, I was out of ideas with this one.

- get rid of the Elder Scroll = options to do something with it after the main quest will be included.

- no peace to capture the dragon = if you are a very persuasive person, of course.

- Paarthurnax killing = plans to make it more intelligent and interesting, but it means leaning towards one fan-theory and I'm not sure of that.

- Sovngarde people = more people to talk to, possible additional quests. Ideas in progress.

 

 

 

Thank you for all suggestions!

 

What happened to my Mage mod? Nothing. It just proved to be far too ambitious for my skills and needs to wait for that time I will be able to pull it off. For now, I cannot.

[simtam]

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[nayakri]

Will it be compatible with Not So Fast - Main Quest?

jk.

 

If we're thinking about the same mod, no. Reason: my mod already includes these "time stops" in the quest and adds plenty more in order to get rid of that fake pressure to finish the main plot. Example: after going to Balgruuf and telling him about the dragon, he won't rush you to Farengar, so you could meet your first dragon. He will pay you (no more big rewards for nothing in particular, but better rewards for real things), tell you to get some rest, and will e-mail send a letter to you after about 2 days. And then the quest will continue. And there will be plenty of such pauses to let you test new tricks and have some pleasant detox before pushing the plot forward.

 

 

In the department of rants, here's something that was pointed out to me last year: the etched tablets Emblem V has it "Man prevailed, shouting Alduin out of the world", so if the player reads it before Esbern deciphers the Alduin's Wall, it comes as nothing new. There are several ways to solve it, besides changing the text on the tablet, of course.

 

But I guess I would think it too simple, just as you could think too simple to explain Delphine taking the Horn of Jurgen using a magic scroll supplied to Delphine by Farengar? For what it's worth, the Not So Fast - Main Quest has all it's functionality optional, except that one. Your mod could improve on it.

 

In my mod, Delphine doesn't touch the Horn and contacts you much later. And I don't remember about the Emblem (perhaps because I have finished the main plot about 2 times in my whole life, but I'll improve, I promise) = I'm noting this right now.

 

I didn't thought about explaining Delphine-Farengar, though. Noted as well.

 

 

And I never got to play it that way, but with Dawnguard DLC, I suppose you can be lectured by Paarthunax on what the Elder Scroll is, even though you have Serana with one clearly in sight in your party.

 

I had Serana only once in my party - for about 6 minutes. I really hate followers and it applies to every game, to be honest. I don't know why, it's my personal preference, I guess. I never finished Dawnguard and Dragonborn DLC, so I will do that (at least with cheats, to make it faster) to have the minimal experience with it before starting drafting. Still, your words are noted and will be kept for the future (not sure what you actually mean, tbh)

 

I don't deal with bugs, I'm really an amateur when it comes to CK - I had problems with scripting weather while making my Mage mod, so I'm not trying with this.

 

 

So, concerning the new dialogue for existing characters, are you going to write unvoiced lines, or do you plan to have them all voiced? I mean, it's a big decision. With the latter, you can question why the city gates are shut because of a dragon all you like, but the NPC will not necessary have the answer you'd like them to say.

 

BTW. you know, if you happen to kill Paarthurnax before asked to do so by the Blades, there's no option to say you did it already, just accept and enter the dialogue again. It's a small window of opportunity, between Paarthurnax being de-essential-ed and player meeting the Blades, but it would happen more often if we'd get rid of the essential status of main quest NPCs.

 

Voice them all? Unless you are going to find me a bunch of people, ready to voice almost every possible character in the whole game, no. I'm not voicing it, though if I'll have the choice, I will simply link new dialogue option to existing responses. Already done example: during your first conversation with Balgruuf you will have plenty of options to choose from, but the most will lead to known answers (for the sake of recycling). But some will be unvoiced and written strictly by me, so you'll have to sit tight and read.

 

I have a big problem with scenes, which are coming in giant steps. The most important will be Season Unending, which will require from me making about a dozen of different scenes due to my ideas - I'm playing now with the thought to learn how to make "windows" inside the game, put text with fancy descriptions inside it and spare the player agony of looking at idle character, moving their lips silently.

 

As I mentioned, Paarthurnax quest will be completely rewritten, though I'm worried about making him evil - some things just don't add up, but luckilly, I'm still writing dialogues for Before the Storm, so it is a long journey before I'll get there. But I'm making a note of making additional dialogues for possibility of killing him earlier.

 

Thank you for your post! You have pointed out some important things and I'm sure all of them will help me in making my mod as good as possible...

 

Now... Let's pray that I will finish it before Christmas XD

[simtam]

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[nayakri]

Ok, I'll make this clear: I'm not going to voice it. Should I finish this and post it on the forums, I let anyone do anything they want with it. But personally, I don't have time to play with voice-making. It just... I'm doing it for fun and according to what I like - I have no problem with reading subtitles, so I don't see how lack of voice would affect the mod too much.

 

Because I hate quoting-mechanism on this site, I'm going to point out the rest without quotes. I hope you'll forgive me.

 

- Civil War = wrong topic. I will post ideas about civil war later on as my draft progresses.

 

- No Blades questline = I don't get what you mean. There's no Blades questline apart from killing Paarthurnax and recruiting some random guys. If you mean meeting with Delphine and Esbern... Altering this is far too much and could damage the main quest. Not to mention even more voiceless dialogues :tongue:

 

- No Delphine/Esbern during negotiation = possible, I think. Noted.

 

- Kill some NPCs = please, more details.

 

- Faces of Time = what it is? *googling* Eeeeh... If you want to include the Dragon Priests to the Main Quest, I can think about it, but the mod... Personally, I wouldn't download it. I don't like the main idea, sorry. But I'll think about conecting the Dragon Priests somehow to the questlines.

 

- Alduin battle = seriously, I'm not sure whether I should alter it. As I said, I don't want to alter anything more than quests and dialogues. After I finish, my mod will be pretty incompatible with anything that touches the Main Quest, The Companions, The Mages Guild, The Thieves Guild, The Bard Guild, etc., etc.

 

- Esbern out of the Ratway without Delphine = I cannot think of anything that could make him go out. I mean, have you seen his doors? No way to Shout through it.

 

- Non-Dragonborn main plot = I think it goes against the lore. So, no.

 

- Not So Fast + my mod = incompatible. Do not compare them. Not So Fast gives you some breathe while mine completely rewrites some quests of the main plot.

 

Thank you for your support. I've noted what I pointed out to be interesting.

Edited February 4, 2019 by nayakri

[simtam]

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Edited January 26, 2020 by simtam

[nayakri]

I like rants, I think I'll read it soon.

 

- Esbern in Ratways: laugh at you? You could still Shout to prove you're a Dragonborn, though... Hm. I'll make a note of that.

EDIT. If you haven't spoken to Esbern, then you don't know who he is. If you don't know who he is, why would you tell him you're a Dragonborn? It just doesn't add up.

 

- Blades questline: ah, you mean necessity to talk and work with Delphine. And then with Esbern. I'm not really sure if it's possible to cut them out... Well, I guess it would be possible. E.g. from Morrowind - when you get powerful enough, Paarthurnax himself could summon you to his mountain and then Alduin could attack, etc., etc. But I don't know if it would work. I guess I'll have to answer the flow of time in the game anyway, so perhaps I'll make something like this happen...

 

We'll see when (or if) I finish it, right? :smile: Thanks!

 

EDIT. Started reading the rant. Thank you for that, it will help me save the main quest (and the rest of Skyrim). Hopefully.

Edited February 5, 2019 by nayakri

[simtam]

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[nayakri]

- Esbern in Ratways: I really don't know. I can't think of any possible scenario that would work without all this that was included in the vanilla game.

 

- Blades skipped: I see your point. Through helping Delphine we kind of align ourselves to the Blades and we have no other choice. I guess it would be interesting if the same very thing would be made from the perspective of the Greybeards... I guess I'll have to think about it. Still, I'm afraid you'd have to meet Alduin in Kynesgrove even without meeting with Delphine, so the whole Alduin-is-back thing could kick in.

[simtam]

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