MidbossVyers Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 No, the person who can instantly summon a dragon right in the middle of the room with 3 words is usually the most influential diplomat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 No, the person who can instantly summon a dragon right in the middle of the room with 3 words is usually the most influential diplomat.That's not even contextually relevant. I said that diplomats are powerful and influential people, not that anyone in particular was more influential. Had Tullius released Thorald, Elenwin would 've informed her superiors that he was interfering with their treaty enforcement. Her superiors would have threatened the Empire with treaty violations, and assuming the Empire wants to delay another war, they would have to at least repost Tullius. It is clear the Empire is gearing up for another war, but they want it on THEIR terms, not with on province in open rebellion and with the Elder Council conspiring against the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVampireDante Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 No, the person who can instantly summon a dragon right in the middle of the room with 3 words is usually the most influential diplomat. That only works if all the relevant parties are present, and you cannot just rely on the efforts of the people sitting in that room. You call up your Dragon, now you have everyone in the room scared - later on to find that one of the "diplomats" has went and made contact with their superiors/subordinates/commanders elsewhere in the world about what you did to get your way.What happens then? They could launch an assault on the country based on your actions - they could throw an army at you personally if they percieve you a large enough threat. Now think of that, and what it would mean if every other person in that room made the same choice - you would have multiple armies reigniting a war. Whether against each other, or - for the time being - against you. Let's take the "peace talk" at High Hrothgar as an example. You have The Stormcloaks, the Empire, The Thalmor, the Greybeards, the blades and a couple of local leaders (Elisef and Balgruuf - empire side). Say you managed to get a Dragon inside, or somehow got the talks to happen outside: 1. You kill everyone there - Only real losers - Blades, Greybeards. You've cut the heads from the local Empire troops and the Stormcloaks - now, the Empire and the Thalmor will just replace their missing people, and the Stormcloaks will rage at the loss of their leaders (martyrs for the cause now) and may rally under a new leader in an effort against you directly.The greybeards are gone - this may or may not drive Paarthanax out of hiding, whether he becomes a danger, unknown - but you have just went and killed a group of courty wide known and respected pacifists - not a good idea. You've also killed off the only known survivors of the Blades - who in the grand image, are at best, a minor matter and something not to be overly concerned with. You've also killed two Jarls - their courts and cities will not be pleased - this could lead to them being rushed into joining in opposition against you. 2. You threaten one side - obviously the losers here at the moment are your opposition. But be sure to know that such a display could bring your enemy to escalate their attacks - if they beleive a new weapon in the form of yourself and any Dragons you can summon have been added to the war, then sure enough all efforts will be made to either destroy the additions, or prevent their use (killing you in either case). 3. Threaten all, but kill no one - the power display, that also shows blind arrogance and no forethought. Now you have both military factions in the war against you, plus the Thalmor, the blades (for what they matter) and the leaders of two large settlements. This one will not end well - either by your death, or the death of thousands as all fronts challenge to remove the immiate threat that has just presented itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yeah, I was playing Lu Bu's story in Dynasty Warriors 8 Xtreme Legends when I wrote this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) If the Thalmor "diplomats" can negotiate the removal of an enemy standing Legion Commander in the middle of a Civil War, well then we know who is really in charge of the Empire. In fact, that would basically imply they are allies. It would be kinda like de Gaulle negotiating the removal of Eisenhower - never going to happen. Eisenhower was put in that position by the real people in charge. Edited July 21, 2014 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) If the Thalmor "diplomats" can negotiate the removal of an enemy standing Legion Commander in the middle of a Civil War, well then we know who is really in charge of the Empire. In fact, that would basically imply they are allies. It would be kinda like de Gaulle negotiating the removal of Eisenhower - never going to happen. Eisenhower was put in that position by the real people in charge. No, it's more like the US negotiating for the removal of the Russian General in charge of the troops along the Ukraine's border because he was turning refugees over to the rebels to be press-ganged into fighting. The Empire and the Dominion are at PEACE, because of the White Gold Concordant. We know the Empire is preparing for war, but they want it on THEIR terms, and certainly not when threes so much infighting in the Empire right now. I really don't understand what's so hard to understand about that. Edited July 21, 2014 by Lachdonin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Are you sure those are not just sweet words to placate the people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Some peace..... Of the 3 factions, the only one I can't find any evidence of torturing people are the Stormcloaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Are you sure those are not just sweet words to placate the people?A possibility, though a remote one. We have multiple sources indicating that the Empire is preparing for war. In contrast, we have only the word of Ulfric that he would take the fight to the Thalmor. If you judge his testimony to be accurate (and really, I have no doubt he pans to, it's whether he can pull it off or not that is the question) then the weight of testimony for the Imperial war-effort has to be taken seriously as well. Some peace..... Of the 3 factions, the only one I can't find any evidence of torturing people are the Stormcloaks. And again with the torture thing. That arguement is like a broken record, and it's not getting any better the more you play it. You scream torture, I point out the overt segregation in Sondheim, you point out Markarth, I point out the rampant racism and xenophobia in... Well, every Stormcloak city... Torture is a minor issue in all of this. Even in Whiterun, probably the friendliest and most free city in the game, they keep a prisoner locked up after his fine as been paid, out of spite. We also know that Ulfric and hos cohorts are capable of horrible things, based on the testimony of the Foresworn. In fact, the same testimony heavily implies that Ulfric has no qualms about murdering civilians and children. Assuming the Stormcloaks don't torture people, because we don't expressly see it, ignores the history of its leaders, the nature of medieval war, and history of the Nords, and the context of the world. I mean, I've never seen anyone in Skyrim, or any TES, take a s#*!. Clearly that means they never do, right? Edited July 22, 2014 by Lachdonin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Where is Sondheim? Also, the Forsworn never directly say Ulfric. They say the Nords. At least, half of those Nords support the Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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