urthman Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I've just got Oblivion and have been installing a ton of mods before I really get started playing. I'm really impressed with the enormous amount of work modders have put in to making this great game even more amazing (especially the Unique Landscape series. Wow.) Anyway, I'm interested in trying to play with some of the re-balancing mods, because the idea of every monster being the same level as the player seems really lame. But I'm hesitant to dive in with OOO and FCOM because 1. It seems like a much more complicated installation than I'm comfortable with. 2. It sounds like it might make the game more difficult than I'd enjoy. I'm really more interested in the exploring, adventuring, role-playing aspects than I am in really difficult combat and having to powergame my character's skills and equipment just to survive. I don't think I'm likely to play through the game with six different charcters, so I'd like to be able to play a more generalist character. Given those preferences, anyone have some advice about what re-balancing mods might be a good fit for what I'm looking for out of the game? Would something like the Sagerbliv mod be a better fit? Or maybe try OOO by itself and turn down the difficulty slider? Has OOO evolved to the point that you really need all the other FCOM stuff at this point in order for the whole thing to be balanced? Thanks so much to all the modders on this board. Lots of really awesome work here, and I'm greatful that you've shared it with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihateregisteringeverywhere Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 The dificulty doesn't pick up THAT much. But just in case you'd feel like it actualy IS too much you can always install deadly reflex, supreme magicka, attack and hide, armor magic resistance and similar mods that basicaly increase your chance of survival. The instalation sounds crazy, I know, but acording to my experience it's just a bit of overhyped downloading, unpacking, putting into the propper pless and then messing with the load order and wrye bashing - nothing you wouldn't do with other mods. The tuttorials realy outline it nicely and you probably won't have trouble unless you've got too many other mods - who knows. Then again that's usualy just a matter of load order alchemy one way or the other. But yes, there are other, smaller overhauls, I just can't recal the name of any for the very life of me. Imagine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowcran Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Deadly Reflex has far too many problems. Do not start with that. Use Locational Damage instead for that sort of thing. Supreme Magicka is also a tad complicated with all the different plugins that come with it. Just download Midas Magic(the #1 rated mod on the top 100) There is Adventurer's Oblivion. It's a smaller overhaul mod. Also, get the Oblivion Mod Manager(OBMM for short) and FCOM Helper(this sorts your mods automatically into correct loading order in seconds) and learn to use them. Also Sagerbliv's Creatures and Items are a good place to start. MOst of Adventurer's and Sagerbliv's are now integrated into OOO so you know I'm leading you on the right path. ALso, Oblivion WarCry is a big mod that's not very complicated. Make sure you install the EV or English Version as it was a german mod translated to English. You can get this one at PlanetOblivion.com. Also, there is a patch for it I recommend getting too. When patching, simply copy the patch over the original files when prompted. Once you're comfortable with all that then try working either Francesco's Or Martigen's Monster Mod into the mix. Martigen's being the better, but can be a tad complicated figuring out all the different versions.(as of now, download the 3.5.5 version in it's entirety, and then the 3.6beta 2 over it). When you're ready to do these 2, Download and learn Wrye Bash to help with your modding. It's a tad complicated at first, but only LOOKs that way. After you've mastered those, you'll be ready to tackle FCOM and OOO. Of course, people on Nexus are nice enough to help you when you do. You'll also be ready to put in body, texture, and hair/eyes type mods. In the middle of all that, check out the weapon/armor, quests, dungeon, and assorted Gameplay and miscellanious tweaks. These are very uncomplicated and don't cause too many problems. FCOM Convergence is needed when you're ready to put the BIG 4 Overhaul mods together so they don't overlap each other(also includes tie ins to a alot of other popular mods too). FCOM = F for Francesco's, C for warCry, O for Oscuros and M for Martigen's Monster Mod. I guess they could have used the W instead of the C in WarCry, but FWOM just doesn't roll off the tongue. When you're ready for all this(and it won't be as long as you think) your load order might look like mine: 00 Oblivion.esm01 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm02 Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm03 Children Of Rourken.esm04 Jog_X_Mod.esm05 CM Partners.esm06 Inventory Tracker.esm07 Qarls_Harvest.esm08 Tamrielic Ingredients.esm09 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.34Beta3]0A Mart's Monster Mod.esm [Version 3.6beta2]0B TamrielTravellers.esm [Version 1.37a]0C Armamentarium.esm0D Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm0E FCOM_Convergence.esm [Version 0.9.9a7]0F Kvatch Rebuilt.esm10 Cybiades.esm [Version 2.0]11 Adrenaline Locational Masterfile.esm12 You Are Here.esm13 SewerExpansion.esm** TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp** TNR - ALL RACES FINAL.esp** TNR - ShiveringIsles no helms.esp14 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.0.0]15 DLCShiveringIsles.esp16 Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch-MOBS-FCOM.esp [Version 1.4.0]17 Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp18 Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp19 Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp1A Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++ FCOM_Francescos.esp [Version 0.9.9]++ FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp [Version 0.9.9]1B FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp [Version 0.9.9]1C Natural_Weather_by_Max_Tael.esp1D Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp1E Natural_Water_by_Max_Tael.esp++ Louder Nirnroot Sound.esp++ Symphony of Violence.esp1F PCSoundRhett.esp [Version 2.6]20 Book Jackets Oblivion.esp++ 300_Random_Clutter.esp21 BookTrackerOBSE.esp++ Brighter_Torches.esp22 Damsels In Distress.esp++ FGPorter_nofollow.esp23 Qarls_Harvest.esp24 Qarls_logs.esp** Rational Names, 2.esp [Version 2-04]25 Harvest[Containers].esp26 Harvest[Containers] - Player Home Add-on.esp27 Living Economy.esp28 Living Economy - Items.esp29 Crowded Cities 15.esp2A Crowded Roads.esp [Version 1.6]2B ArmamentariumVendors.esp2C CapesandCloaks.esp2D Crossbows of Cyrodiil.esp++ Darkgreen Glass Armour.esp2E Dreadweave Complete_Heavy.esp2F Dreadweave Complete_Light.esp30 KDCirclets.esp31 KDClothCirclets.esp32 SentientWeapon.esp [Version 3]33 Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp34 The Bow of the Mongolian Horseman.esp35 tkRapiers.esp36 MaleBodyReplacerV3.esp37 StockClothingArmor-forExnems.esp38 ExnemEC_Rogue01.esp39 AncientTowers.esp3A ExnemRuneskulls.esp++ FCOM_ExnemRuneskulls.esp [Version 0.9.9]++ FCOM_TamrielicIngredients.esp [Version 0.9.9]3B Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp3C Cheat Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp3D FCOM_BobsArmory.esp [Version 0.9.9]3E Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++ FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp [Version 0.9.9]3F Oblivion WarCry EV.esp40 FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 0.9.9]41 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.34Beta3]42 Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp [Version 3.6Beta2]43 FCOM_Convergence.esp [Version 0.9.9]44 FCOM_OscurosOverhaul.esp [Version 0.9.8]45 FCOM_RealSwords.esp [Version 0.9.9]46 Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp [Version 3.6Beta2]++ Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp47 FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp [Version 0.9.9]++ Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp [Version 3.6Beta2]++ FCOM_SaferRoads.esp [Version 0.9.9]++ Mart's Monster Mod - No Blood.esp [Version 3.6Beta2]48 Mart's Monster Mod - Foxes.esp [Version 3.6Beta2]49 Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp [Version 3.6Beta2]4A Mart's Monster Mod - Bats Addon.esp4B Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life No Gates.esp [Version 3.5.5b4]4C Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp [Version 3.6Beta2]++ FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp [Version 0.9.9]++ FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp [Version 0.9.9]++ FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp [Version 0.9.9]++ FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp [Version 0.9.9]++ FCOM_Archery.esp [Version 0.9.9]4D FCOM_VanillaItemReleveler.esp4E TamrielTravellers4000.esp [Version 1.37a]4F ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp [Version 1.37a]++ FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp [Version 0.9.9]50 T.I.E4MODS.esp [Version 0.1]++ T.I.E4OOO+FCOM.esp [Version 0.1]51 Nightshade_Armor.esp52 Castle Ravenpride.esp [Version 1.01]53 bartholm.esp54 Cybiades.esp [Version 2.1]55 CybiadesDungeon.esp [Version 2.1]56 300_Artifacts.esp57 300_White Stallion 4.esp58 3_Numbers_v.1.0.esp59 ArmoryLab.esp5A Artefacts of the Ancestors.esp5B Bjornheim.esp5C castleofnight.esp5D ChangeinManagement.esp5E COR-Episode1 Secret of Enourk.esp5F DexwoodFamilySaga.esp60 DJ Markov Manor.esp61 Fort Ferrion.esp62 GlenvarCastle.esp63 GTAesgaard.esp64 Hand of Dawn.esp65 HauntedHouse.esp66 HoarfrostCastle.esp67 ICSewerDBsanctuary.esp68 Lyn-StoriesFromTheSeaMod.esp69 Mad Mike's Crypts of Cyrodiil.esp6A NakedNord.esp6B Nanaelas Heartbreak.esp6C Pek_Halls_of_The_Phoenix_Order.esp6D Quest For The Elements.esp6E Ruins of Aeris Zul.esp6F Ruins of Tarnesia.esp [Version 1.0]70 Spirit's Edge.esp71 sunk ships.esp72 TempleoftheFullMoon.esp73 The_Dragon_Citadel-6178.esp74 The_Tower_of_the_Lich_King-4492.esp75 thievery.esp76 Tomb of the Unknown Knight.esp77 Treasure Maps Blood Ransom.esp78 Treasure Maps_Boethia's Burden.esp79 treasure maps captus demus.esp7A Treasure Maps Meridias Womb.esp7B Treasure_Maps_The_Legend_Of_Jauffres_Gold.esp7C VHBloodlines 1.2.esp [Version 1.4]7D Village of Lily 2.0.esp7E WellspringGrove.esp7F WOTFH_1.3.esp80 za_bankmod.esp81 sir_balin_mod.esp82 Knights.esp83 Knights Patch.esp [Version -02]84 Damarask.esp [Version 1.02]85 The Lost Spires.esp86 TOTF.esp87 Ruin.esp [Version 2.50]88 Mighty Umbra.esp89 Ungarion1TheWelkyndSword.esp [Version 1.4]8A Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp8B Origin of the Mages Guild.esp [Version 5.1]8C The Mystery of the Dulan cult.esp8D MannimarcoComplete.esp++ FCOM_Knights.esp [Version 0.9.9]++ FCOM_MightyUmbra.esp [Version 0.9.9]++ FCOM_Ruin.esp [Version 0.9.9]++ FCOM_SlofsRobeTrader.esp [Version 0.9.9]8E FCOM_OMG.esp [Version 0.9.9]++ FCOM_OMGSRT.esp [Version 0.9.9]8F FCOM_DulanCult.esp [Version 0.9.9]90 Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp++ FCOM_EnhancedDaedricInvasion.esp [Version 0.9.9]91 Kvatch Rebuilt.esp92 FightersGuildContracts.esp93 Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp94 DEJ Harvest - Flora.esp95 AutoBookPlacer_v2.esp96 Cobl Hmm.esp++ Essential_Trainers-8374.esp++ Great Gate Essential NPC's.esp++ GuilesNameReplace-Scrolls.esp++ Light Elven Weapons and Mithril Armor.esp++ NameReplacer-Clothing.esp++ No Quest Items.esp97 P1DkeyChain.esp [Version 4.20]++ P1DkeyExtraMouseButton.esp98 SA Social Alertness.esp99 Speedy Disrobe OBSE.esp [Version 1.3]9A lorecreatures.esp9B RealisticForceMedium.esp9C RealisticMagicForceMedium.esp9D Enhanced Mercantile Progress.esp [Version 1.0a]9E All+5AttributeModifiers.esp9F Nanite's Legendary Alchemy.espA0 Legendary Abilities-Reflect MOJ.espA1 Grandmaster of Alchemy.espA2 MidasSpells.espA3 Advanced Magecraft.esp++ SM_OOO.esp [Version 0.80]++ SM_AbsorbRestoration.esp [Version 0.80]++ SM_EnableCharmChameleon.esp [Version 0.80]A4 SM_EnchantStaff.esp [Version 0.80]A5 CLS-AlchemyTools.espA6 Multiple Enchantments.esp++ dyseso_Light_Ingred_Appar.espA7 300ft_crime_detection-7319.espA8 Adrenaline-Fuelled Combat.espA9 Locational Damage- Core.espAA Locational Damage- Effects.espAB Locational Damage- Accurate Armour Damage.espAC Enhanced_Hand_to_hand-2329.espAD Fiery Fists v1.2.espAE Enter The Shinobi - Coors916.espAF Better Hand to Hand.espB0 No More Annoying Comments.espB1 NoMerchantBarterChatter.espB2 CM Partners.esp++ [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp++ [GFX]_Initial_Glow-self.esp++ [GFX]_Initial_Glow-creatures.esp++ Real Lava v1.2.esp++ Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp [Version 3.6Beta2]B3 Willful Resistance.esp [Version 2.0]B4 Duke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrow Shots Alert The Target.espB5 Duke Patricks - NPC MAGIC and Arrows Can Miss Now.espB6 Duke Patricks Basic Denock Arrows.espB7 Bashed Patch, 0.espB8 Streamline 3.1.espB9 BXX Blue Flame.espBA BXX Island of Arennis.espBB AC_ModM701.espBC AddisHeadhunterMod EV.espBD Advanced Fletching.espBE Adventurers_1.0.espBF Angelic Alliance.espC0 bloodscorncastle.espC1 BookQuest.espC2 CyrodiilsLastHope.espC3 Damage Text v2.espC4 DarkReign_The Discovery.espC5 Fort Baltsine.espC6 HauntedHouse v1.4.espC7 JaySuSHarmonyIslandModV11.espC8 Julianos Priory.espC9 Labyrinth.espCA Legends Baleful Eye.espCB Life_Translated-2681.espCC Netherworld01.espCD OS Artifacts.esp [Version 1.0]CE Pirates Grave V1.1.espCF Platinum Armor and Weapons.espD0 Polearms.espD1 PotR.esp++ Duke Patricks - BASIC Script Effect Silencer BETA.espD2 Annoying messages begone!.espD3 BoneMaster.espD4 2367-1.0-Borderless Cyrodiil-TESSource.espD5 Drekin's Keep 2.3.espD6 RightingtheWrongs.espD7 Duke Patricks - Bob and Weave Dodge Mark II.espD8 Duke Patricks - Smash of the Titans.espD9 FCOM_NewItemsTemplate.esp [Version 0.9.4]DA Harvest[Containers] - Flat-Top Barrels Add-on.espDB Harvest[Containers] - Havok Crates Add-on.espDC SewerExpansion-Bravil.espDD SewerExpansion-Cheydinhal.espDE OBF Bandit Fix.espDF OBF Marksman Fix.espE0 Quest Award Leveling_v1_6.espE1 RegionalBounty.espE2 Ruins of Nalcarum.espE3 Sagerbliv RareItems v20.espE4 WoodNymph.espE5 Ravengoldplugin.espE6 The SilverDragonArmorQuest.espE7 Absolutely_Sexy_Jensine.espE8 Fair x2 Spawns v1.0.espE9 Master-Crafting-1.1-MMM Greaves fix.esp----> DELINQUENT MASTER: Master-Crafting-1.1-MMM.espEA 10% HandToHandBlock.espEB TolawaylAyleidCity_Quest.espEC Duke Patricks - Momentum Lite Damage Bonus.espED Master-Crafting-1.1-MMM.espEE Legendary Abilities-Shield MOJ.espEF Tumbderdon.espF0 VeridiusInvestigations.espF1 Tunnels of Tamriel.espF2 Wondrous_Inventory_v091.esp++ MerchantsBuyYourClutter 1.1.esp++ More Lockpicks.esp++ Pretty Elves.esp++ Burns.esp++ JewelryEnchantmentFixes.esp++ NoHelms.esp++ EyjaFaceFixed.esp++ Potion Sorter v1.0 + Potions Recolored v0.2.1 - No Tweaks.esp++ Loadies_vol_01.esp++ OBF Clutter Fix.esp++ OBF Daedra Fix.esp++ ImperialdragAR.esp++ BeautifulJensine.esp++ WellspringGroveZahrashaBook.espF3 AyleidTreasury.esp++ Annoying fan.esp++ Sagerbliv Weapons v20.esp++ arrow_speed.espF4 AutoSheath.espF5 NoObsoleteEnemies.espF6 Restore_Health_Enchantment-8830.espF7 EnchantmentRemoval.espF8 Water Nymphs.esp++ OBF 2-Handed Weapon Fix.esp++ OBF Enchant Fix.esp++ OBF Quest Item Fix.espF9 Daedric Lord Armor.esp++ daywalkers_mod.esp++ Better Torches.esp++ nomoreflicker.esp++ Shadow's Horse Wander Fix v1.2.esp++ Lyn-LessGodlikeBoundItems.esp++ Lyn-SweetLittleMudCrabs.esp++ Lyn-BiggerBearsAndBoars.esp++ master_essentials.esp++ Bandits to Brigands.esp++ Unlimited_Adventures_v1.3.esp++ Adoring Fan Respawn Disabler v100.esp [Version 1.00]++ Hands And Feet.esp++ Goblin shaman overhaul.esp++ zom813 - Your Unkillable Horses 1.0.esp++ Weightless Ring of Silence.esp++ Less Weightless Items.esp++ better lights.esp++ Weightless_Repair_Hammers-7731.espFA WolfPacks.esp++ Weightless_Arrows-9515.esp++ Unlimited Torches.esp++ BetterCoins.esp++ OBF Fathis Aren Fix.esp++ OBF Doubled Ranged Magic Speed.esp++ OBF Vampire Fix.esp++ Health_Spell_Cost-2088.esp++ Ingredient Overhaul + Food simplifier.esp++ dbpoisonapple.esp++ Respawning SI Amber & Madness Ore.esp++ Essential_Unicorn-3157.esp++ The_Student_Mod-3069.esp++ No_More_Quest_Items-4810.esp++ no_wind-2578.esp++ ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions.esp [Version 1.37a]FB Beautiful PeopleV22 - MaleReplacerV3.espFC SM Hand Combat.esp [Version 0.5] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urthman Posted September 19, 2008 Author Share Posted September 19, 2008 Hmm. Not sure that's the best way to convince me that it's really not that complicated. :) I guess the stuff that's put me off trying OOO / FCOM is stuff like this in one of the OOO FAQ pages: OOO-modified Oblivion is a tough game, particularly so for low-level characters. However, oftentimes it's due to a character creation plan that wasn't well thought-out...The key to making a survivable character for OOO is specialization. "Universal" characters don't do well, since their skills are too jack-of-all-tradesy (and you should know that the appendix to that is "and master of none"). I understand why some people like that kind of thing, but I'm not that interested in a game where you have to min/max your character race and stats from the very beginning or else you're screwed. (And the alternative the site mentions, bring up the console and use cheat codes to buff your character up a bit doesn't sound that much fun either.) On the other hand, all that extra content lovingly put together by devoted fans is awfully appealing. How lame would it be to just install everything and turn down the difficulty slider? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowcran Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 No problem at all lowering the difficulty level for it. Lower it to 25% and gradually move it up. I, too, like being a jack of all trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickleYield Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I use FCOM and have not had problems with the difficulty level (except in ways that made things more fun - e.g. actually having to run away from something once in a while). Installation took maybe a half hour to an hour of moving the load order around, that was all. I also use Deadly Reflexes and am not sure to what "problems" Shadowcran refers, except a greater probability of crashes if my computer is really hot and I use the combustive convulsion spell. I tend to use a lot of modded equipment (since I'm an armor/weapons modeler/texturer myself) with higher-than-normal stats. I've found this usually levels things out to where I can use and enjoy FCOM without dying every ten seconds, although if I start a new character I usually will train up to about level 5 with trainers and Madh's Training Dolls before wandering the wilderness much. I haven't found minmaxing to be at all necessary - leveling minor skills is rewarding no matter what class/sign you play. Using companion characters from Toaster's or CM Partners that are tagged essential may occasionally help you survive longer, although I've usually found they tend to get killed quickly and repeatedly (You will get tired of the "so and so is unconscious" message) and will either a.) hit you or b.)dive in front of you often enough to outweigh any real advantage from them. Mostly I use them because they're entertaining company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urthman Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 Okay, y'all convinced me, and thanks to this really-helpful step-by-step, I manged to get the whole blasted FCOM installed. Everything seems to be working okay. Taking my first-level Assassin through Sideways dungeon straight out of the sewers (after killing a few bandits and sleeping in their tent), has been a major challenge! Couldn't do it without lots of 3x sneak-attack arrows. So thanks for the advice, I guess. We'll see. I have one question. After installing everything and bashing it all together, is it still possible to go back and change some of the options I selected? For instance, I selected the default OOO leveling. Could I change that to a more conservative 2x leveling by just installing the right .esp? Or do i need to go back and reinstall the whole OOO package? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khet Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Just overwrite the esp, and if it doesn't overwrite install the new one, then disable or delete the old leveling rate. That'll set you right as rain. Personally I use Francesco's leveling rate (with FCOM running) which is set to 75% slower leveling. As a note for FCOM, don't get discouraged if you have to run from a LOT of fights as a new character. It always felt to me that FCOM was built with higher leveled characters in mind, and a fresh-from-the-prison character seems to have some difficulty, but after you get a few levels it should start to even out pretty quick (though you still run from fights!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcwleblanc Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 yeah you will be running a lot at first, right now my new character is at lvl 7 with fcom and some other mods running and its getting to the point where i dont have to "kite" monsters around to kill them anymore :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urthman Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 I'll check again, but I wasn't able to find a "leveling" .esp associated with OOO. I just remember choosing the default option when the .omod file was installed. Should I install/reinstall the OOO.omod? Or can I just put a different leveling .esp lower down in my modlist? How would I even know if it was working right? I've found that the Perception Spell mod (which puts an aura around creatures to indicate how their level compares with yours) to be a big help in avoiding fights I'm not ready for yet. (Which is not to say I haven't *tried* to attack a few red-auraed monsters...). Oblivion has such an amazing modding community supporting it. This is why I tend to wait a year or two to buy games: 1. Cheaper2. My hardware can run it better3. Bugs more likely to be patched.4. Possibility that a modding community has sprung up and made the game anywhere from 2 - 30x better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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