Mod Theft on Patreon

[alannexus]

 

people who mod dont use there real names though ive only seen someone with a real name one or 2 times so providing a name isnt prove,

 

It's not really proof and Patreon isn't involved in actively policing copyright, they just comply with DMCA takedowns.

 

It's like:

a. you send a DMCA notice - they take down the content

b. alleged thief/real thief files a counter-notice (he also needs to provide his name, or he can quietly accept that he was wrong)

c. if the thief disputes your claim this way, you have several business days to file a lawsuit for copyright infringement - otherwise the content goes back up

 

Let's hope it doesn't come to that and the thief simply backs off when he sees the DMCA notice.

 

Giving a name is more about establishing:

1. accountability in case you lie (a false DMCA is legally the equivalent of perjury, an anonymous complaint in an e-mail is not)

2. that you're not a troll and you're at least somewhat serious about it (at least in the eyes of a third party, you need to look at it from that perspective, Patreon doesn't know how things work in the modding community)

 

It could still be abused by trolls but trolls typically don't give out real names or risk a lawsuit / criminal charges.

 

 

 

has for cant prove he sells packs of mods which is against bethesda rules so thats enough of a reason to get them removed (why are mod thiefs and youtubers allowed make money from mods but modders cant),there are other sites for mods other than nexus LL,bethesda.net etc but he wants to sell them so proving who owns them doesnt need to be estabilshed they should be removed because they cant be sold.as for fair use he isnt using it for personal use he is selling them

 

Bethesda is no exception to the rule, they'd also need to file a DMCA and they would need to do it themselves or through a lawyer or other legal representative. Certainly not through a modder. We don't speak for them.

 

To you and me it seems obvious that Bethesda is right, to a third party not involved with modding it may not be. And with all the other copyright disputes in thousands of other communities around Patreon, it just isn't feasible (or even desired in my opinion) to have Patreon become the copyright police.

 

It's easy to say "well it's against the EULA". Okay, Bethesda games are just a handful of products, do you believe Patreon has the time or resources to look into every EULA that was ever created for a game?

 

Not to mention that merely proving content was stolen sometimes requires having a copy of Skyrim/Fallout4/whatever + Creation Kit. Without that, you really can't confirm the infringement. So they'd need to purchase several games and hire a moderator who knows about these games just to investigate this one claim with rigorous detail.

 

they dont need to learn modding to invistigate it he isnt allowed sell mods,they know he is selling mods,i dont think he would back off he is making a min of 10k a month,lol everyone else seems to make money from modding wheres modders lose money from modding

Edited April 14, 2019 by alannexus

[ToroMontana]

 

 

they dont need to learn modding to invistigate it he isnt allowed sell mods,they know he is selling mods,i dont think he would back off he is making a min of 10k a month,lol everyone else seems to make money from modding wheres modders lose money from modding

 

Again, look at it from the perspective of a third party outside the modding scene, especially one that deals with content far more vast than a few mods from one gaming company. Content too numerous to even watch let alone investigate for copyright violations. This is why the DMCA was created.

 

Assume that I'm a neutral content host and I know absolutely nothing about Skyrim or Fallout mods, nothing about Bethesda, nothing about the community built around mods or the modding etiquette. Assume it's completely alien to me. How would I know you're not allowed to sell mods? I'd have to read the EULA (i.e. in practice hire a lawyer if not an entire team of them) and even then I cannot possibly know what special arrangement the user has with Bethesda, only a real court has the resources to uncover that to any satisfactory level. They've already made an exception through the Creation Club where a select group of users can in fact sell mods because they have a special deal with Bethesda.

 

In this case, Bethesda hasn't even filed a complaint yet, so why would I risk deciding that for myself? Do you know what the consequences could be if I'm wrong, if I make the wrong call?

 

 

Patreon first of all gets a cut of everything their users make so that alone is a good reason to be prudent about removing content and banning people.

 

In my view, nothing bad (to Patreon) would happen if they simply banned the mod thief talked about in this thread, but once they start down the road of policing copyright in this manner it's only a matter of time till they get it wrong with some other type of content unrelated to mods, lose a lot of money and maybe even get sued for monetary damages and then lose even more money if people start pulling out because they feel bans are handed out unfairly. I mean lots of people make a living from Patreon and they're just not gonna put up with that kind of stuff. What Patreon ultimately is a glorified middle man and easily expendable if it becomes more trouble than it's worth for the average user. Let us remember that another controversial ban (not for copyright but hate speech instead) of a prominent YouTuber lead to the rise of its competitor Subscribe Star and today many people will simply refuse to deal with Patreon because they think it will arbitrarily ban you on flimsy grounds.

 

If they go down that path they'll no longer be able to claim "safe harbor" status either and they become liable for actual copyright violations that they fail to take the right action against. Imagine for once they do investigate a claim in detail and determine that no copyright was violated when it actually has been violated. In such a case Patreon is no longer a neutral third party but a "partner-in-crime" so to speak. You make a decision, you own up the consequences. Sometimes it's better if you don't make any decisions at all and claim neutrality. Without the DMCA many of these sites would not be able to operate.

[alannexus]

 

they dont need to learn modding to invistigate it he isnt allowed sell mods,they know he is selling mods,i dont think he would back off he is making a min of 10k a month,lol everyone else seems to make money from modding wheres modders lose money from modding

 

Again, look at it from the perspective of a third party outside the modding scene, especially one that deals with content far more vast than a few mods from one gaming company. Content too numerous to even watch let alone investigate for copyright violations. This is why the DMCA was created.

 

Assume that I'm a neutral content host and I know absolutely nothing about Skyrim or Fallout mods, nothing about Bethesda, nothing about the community built around mods or the modding etiquette. Assume it's completely alien to me. How would I know you're not allowed to sell mods? I'd have to read the EULA (i.e. in practice hire a lawyer if not an entire team of them) and even then I cannot possibly know what special arrangement the user has with Bethesda, only a real court has the resources to uncover that to any satisfactory level. They've already made an exception through the Creation Club where a select group of users can in fact sell mods because they have a special deal with Bethesda.

 

In this case, Bethesda hasn't even filed a complaint yet, so why would I risk deciding that for myself? Do you know what the consequences could be if I'm wrong, if I make the wrong call?

 

 

Patreon first of all gets a cut of everything their users make so that alone is a good reason to be prudent about removing content and banning people.

 

In my view, nothing bad (to Patreon) would happen if they simply banned the mod thief talked about in this thread, but once they start down the road of policing copyright in this manner it's only a matter of time till they get it wrong with some other type of content unrelated to mods, lose a lot of money and maybe even get sued for monetary damages and then lose even more money if people start pulling out because they feel bans are handed out unfairly. I mean lots of people make a living from Patreon and they're just not gonna put up with that kind of stuff. What Patreon ultimately is a glorified middle man and easily expendable if it becomes more trouble than it's worth for the average user. Let us remember that another controversial ban (not for copyright but hate speech instead) of a prominent YouTuber lead to the rise of its competitor Subscribe Star and today many people will simply refuse to deal with Patreon because they think it will arbitrarily ban you on flimsy grounds.

 

If they go down that path they'll no longer be able to claim "safe harbor" status either and they become liable for actual copyright violations that they fail to take the right action against. Imagine for once they do investigate a claim in detail and determine that no copyright was violated when it actually has been violated. In such a case Patreon is no longer a neutral third party but a "partner-in-crime" so to speak. You make a decision, you own up the consequences. Sometimes it's better if you don't make any decisions at all and claim neutrality. Without the DMCA many of these sites would not be able to operate.

 

pateron are selling stolen property the mod autors in the list on the main page can sue them the money made is from there mods (he is making a min of 10k a month from pateron),as for if people move away from patreon that has nothing to do with modders no one donates to modders but they do donate to people who steal mods and youtubers why should modders care if they lose money modders dont get paid why should they

Edited April 14, 2019 by alannexus

[ToroMontana]

pateron are selling stolen property the mod autors in the list on the main page can sue them the money made is from there mods (he is making a min of 10k a month from pateron),as for if people move away from patreon that has nothing to do with modders no one donates to modders but they do donate to people who steal mods and youtubers why should modders care if they lose money modders dont get paid why should they

 

Well I agree with one thing, modders don't get rewarded enough. The donation point system is basically a cosmetic reward to put it nicely, it doesn't cover the electricity needed to make mods. (I also have mods that I'm not even allowed to activate donation points for.)

 

I think Bethesda should allow people to sell mods for a 30% cut. If they did that, I'd quit my job and just do expansion-type of DLCs for Fallout and ES. Since that's not an option, it's just a hobby for me and I only make small mods. Maybe a short quest and a few companions, that sort of thing.

 

In my non-expert estimation, you could probably sue FlashBangZ and win if he used your mod, Patreon no. They're protected by safe harbor provisions in the DMCA. It would also be a pretty stupid decision to sue Patreon considering all you have to do to get them to take down content is file a valid DMCA with all the information requested. If some people don't want to use a real name, too bad. They won't sue either since that also requires a real name.

Edited April 14, 2019 by ToroMontana

[KahvozeinsFang]

Not just on Patreon, I found another website that contains possibly hundreds of stolen mods. This link is to one of my own mods for the Sims 3. The download link doesn't point back to Nexus, but to a cloud server of some kind. There is also a section for Skyrim mods, most of them I've seen here on Nexus. It doesn't look like this guy is trying to profit from any of them though.

 

I commented on the page as my old username but anyone can look at my uploads and see the mod is mine.

 

http://truegamemods.blogspot.com/2017/07/realistic-naked-skin-pubic-hair-non.html?m=1

Edited May 23, 2019 by KahvozeinsFang

[KahvozeinsFang]

I think it would be nice if Nexus would make all users verify their purchase of said games before being able to download mods.

 

Mostly because people who actually buy the games are probably less likely to steal mods and upload them somewhere else. And those that do, probably have pirated games in the first place.

[evilreflex]

I will delete my patreon account next month (131$ at the moment), just wanted 250$~ to pay 3dsmax.

But seeing people pay much more for stupid mod packs bugs me. (or stupid incest renpy games)

Patreon was my last try to get 100% legal... now I switched to Blender 2.8, but there is no working NIF plugin. (Can't afford 3dsmax without support)

I still want to mod skyrim!

But for now, I ignore all requests and only do what I want to do. (Working on a new total reworked version of my Succubus Follower for SSE)

 

[Crystan]

Hello, i'm one of the affected mod authors of this criminal activity. Is this guy still profiting from mods he doesn't have the permission to do so?

[Reneer]

Hello, i'm one of the affected mod authors of this criminal activity. Is this guy still profiting from mods he doesn't have the permission to do so?

Yes.

[slvsaris]

The guy should have been reported to Bethesda long ago. His patreon is still up, and he is selling access to both Skyrim and Fallout 4 mods. They can take him down.