Obama FTW

[delphinus]

:blink: I couldn't disagree more. Isreal is our strongest ally and they are surrounded by people who want to wipe them off the map. Leaving would be the most selfish thing we could do. By leaving all of our interests and bases, terrorism has acheived its goal. And we've been doing such a good job, why abandon everything? It doesn't make sense. And what about Osama Bin Laden? Just up and leave there too and let all the women get terrorized by Al Queda?

The US needs to grow up and get a backbone to its unpopularity. People are always going to hate us. Conforming to the rest of the world's inaction is wimping out and letting everyone else control what we do. That doesn't mean we don't need to work out our issues (which we do) but it means to stand up for the little guy when the rest of the world turns a blind eye.

 

Seen any changes in Afghanistan? i think not. It's everything a war zone and the talibans still have the power (if we don't consider the puppet Karzai as the power) Plus, everything is bombed and there are thousands thousands deaths by the bombs now and before. (not considering that the villages where are SUPPOSED to hide the talibans are STILL bombed. Brutally shameful)

 

Seen any changes in Iraq? i think not. Yes, they eliminated the guy who had weapon of mass destrucion (BWA-HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! ;D ) but everything is a war zone there too. Again thousands deaths day by day by "terrorist"'s hand everyday, plus a few more by vile raids on villages, towns and places where are SUPPOSED to hide "terrorists"

 

Plus, i want to highlight a remarkable number of deaths on the "cannon fodder" side too. THIS is how the GOVERNMENTS consider their soldiers. not certainly heros... don't get distracted by the aesthetics of a military funeral, what governments need for their dirty deeds is cannon fodder, not heros.

 

These are the effects of a war against terrorism. (BWA-HAHAHAHAHA!!! ;D) Better pack the bags and go home everyone.

 

 

PS: Cynster, i'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing at the lies that we are told everyday trying to hide the fact that these are wars for conquer, not wars for "freedom" (BWA-HAh...

[UnholyShadow]

:blink: I couldn't disagree more. Isreal is our strongest ally and they are surrounded by people who want to wipe them off the map. Leaving would be the most selfish thing we could do. By leaving all of our interests and bases, terrorism has acheived its goal. And we've been doing such a good job, why abandon everything? It doesn't make sense. And what about Osama Bin Laden? Just up and leave there too and let all the women get terrorized by Al Queda?

The US needs to grow up and get a backbone to its unpopularity. People are always going to hate us. Conforming to the rest of the world's inaction is wimping out and letting everyone else control what we do. That doesn't mean we don't need to work out our issues (which we do) but it means to stand up for the little guy when the rest of the world turns a blind eye.

 

Seen any changes in Afghanistan? i think not. It's everything a war zone and the talibans still have the power (if we don't consider the puppet Karzai as the power) Plus, everything is bombed and there are thousands thousands deaths by the bombs now and before. (not considering that the villages where are SUPPOSED to hide the talibans are STILL bombed. Brutally shameful)

 

Seen any changes in Iraq? i think not. Yes, they eliminated the guy who had weapon of mass destrucion (BWA-HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! ;D ) but everything is a war zone there too. Again thousands deaths day by day by "terrorist"'s hand everyday, plus a few more by vile raids on villages, towns and places where are SUPPOSED to hide "terrorists"

 

Plus, i want to highlight a remarkable number of deaths on the "cannon fodder" side too. THIS is how the GOVERNMENTS consider their soldiers. not certainly heros... don't get distracted by the aesthetics of a military funeral, what governments need for their dirty deeds is cannon fodder, not heros.

 

These are the effects of a war against terrorism. (BWA-HAHAHAHAHA!!! ;D) Better pack the bags and go home everyone.

 

 

PS: Cynster, i'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing at the lies that we are told everyday trying to hide the fact that these are wars for conquer, not wars for "freedom" (BWA-HAh...

I know I said I wouldn't post in this thread again, but I felt like I should point out one of the glaring errors in your post. There aren't 1000s of deaths a day in Iraq. Simply correcting you, not really trying to get into the debate again.

[Michlo]

on the slight matter of allies,

Britannia is Americans greatest ally has been for over 50 years. I personally do not count Israel as an ally, they more client kingdom at this point. From 1960s we have sent them countless millions, I believe right now figures are about 6 billion a year. What War in the last 50 has Israel sent aid in? After we stood up and told the world we support the idea of Jewish state of Israel. When no other would do so, I think just a few hundred soldiers or the act of trying to. Show some respect to US and not just take from us. Poland, Italy, Spain Denmark and most of all Britannia those are our allies. The Brits are right there with the US right or wrong. They are our combat brothers in arms across pond..

 

As American we forget who helps us gain our independence, France was there to help us. Give the Navy that we lacked, against the British. They give the statue of liberty as a gift of international friendship from the people of France to the people of the United States.

 

Has anyone look at it like this. Why we have been attacked from 1960s on by these Arabic groups? There are more than one aspect of why the attacks on the US has happen. One of the factor that sticks out the most is our support of Israel. It goes back to what I said before, more or less we are bread and butter for Israel.

I think they can handle themselves quite well actually. They alone fought all their neighbors from trying to destroy them and even expanded, way outnumbered. I think Britain has been a great ally, but at the moment, in my opinion, our greatest is Israel. The Israelites have as much right to Israel as the Arabs (based on history) but I'm not going to get into religion. Regardless they both have a lot of history there, and just because the terrorists are irritating with threats and bombing their own people doesn't mean we should be frightened into not supporting Israel. Especially when the terrorists hurt us. If you just walk away, they win, and that would mean more death and destruction.

 

 

Well we are straying off topic but as a Brit I resent that. The British have done FAR more for the US than Israel could even dream of.

 

And it has nothing to do with "religion" to say that NO, the Israelis do NOT and never have had the right to displace others who had nothing to do with the holocaust. If anything, they should have been settled somewhere in Germany.

[Skolhamarr]

on the slight matter of allies,

Britannia is Americans greatest ally has been for over 50 years. I personally do not count Israel as an ally, they more client kingdom at this point. From 1960s we have sent them countless millions, I believe right now figures are about 6 billion a year. What War in the last 50 has Israel sent aid in? After we stood up and told the world we support the idea of Jewish state of Israel. When no other would do so, I think just a few hundred soldiers or the act of trying to. Show some respect to US and not just take from us. Poland, Italy, Spain Denmark and most of all Britannia those are our allies. The Brits are right there with the US right or wrong. They are our combat brothers in arms across pond..

 

As American we forget who helps us gain our independence, France was there to help us. Give the Navy that we lacked, against the British. They give the statue of liberty as a gift of international friendship from the people of France to the people of the United States.

 

Has anyone look at it like this. Why we have been attacked from 1960s on by these Arabic groups? There are more than one aspect of why the attacks on the US has happen. One of the factor that sticks out the most is our support of Israel. It goes back to what I said before, more or less we are bread and butter for Israel.

I think they can handle themselves quite well actually. They alone fought all their neighbors from trying to destroy them and even expanded, way outnumbered. I think Britain has been a great ally, but at the moment, in my opinion, our greatest is Israel. The Israelites have as much right to Israel as the Arabs (based on history) but I'm not going to get into religion. Regardless they both have a lot of history there, and just because the terrorists are irritating with threats and bombing their own people doesn't mean we should be frightened into not supporting Israel. Especially when the terrorists hurt us. If you just walk away, they win, and that would mean more death and destruction.

 

 

Well we are straying off topic but as a Brit I resent that. The British have done FAR more for the US than Israel could even dream of.

 

And it has nothing to do with "religion" to say that NO, the Israelis do NOT and never have had the right to displace others who had nothing to do with the holocaust. If anything, they should have been settled somewhere in Germany.

 

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother. That line of Shakespeare's Henry 5 holds true to alliance of United States and Britannia. We have shed our blood for both our counties well being. (side note, what battle was Henry at Agincourt if my memory sever me right. Crécy maybe)

 

Well it is a topic and issue that whomever is the american president will have to address in the coming years. Middle East is and can be a political timebomb, as Landsknecht stated there may factor an angles to look with deal with this issue. Lets look the elements that have shape the political climate, not what happen 1500 years ago. In the last 60 years, that is what is shaping our world today. I would speak more on this, but I would be putting to much of my personal views on it.

 

Just try to keep neutral view of the this topic, there to many element to make this topic firestorm so to speak.

[Cynster]

Alright, I'm not going to argue on opinions. I'll agree to disagree.

[Ethre]

As American we forget who helps us gain our independence, France was there to help us.

 

Actually, if you'll remember: The Great War, WW2, and Vietnam all happened in the last hundred years. After which, De Gaulle moved away from the US and tried to establish France as its own power.

 

Although, to be honest, it was the French Monarchy that supported the American Revolution - not France per se . . .

 

But anyway, you might want to think a bit more about your claim

 

p.s. - For a bonus point, where did some of the money for Napoleon's wars come from?

 

-(Louisana Purchase: Sold to finance France's military)-

 

:thumbsup:

[Michlo]

Alright, I'm not going to argue on opinions. I'll agree to disagree.

 

 

Or you could just offer some examples of what makes you think they have aided the U.S. more than the British? Of course, I don't believe that is possible because they just haven't. Even a search on Yahoo fails to show anything they have done for the U.S.

 

You can't call a group eagerly taking BILLIONS from the U.S. to help them in a situation that is utterly wrong an ally.

[Michlo]

Double post.

[myrmaad]

Actually, Michlo, you're looking in the wrong place. Not that I disagree with your overall stance.

 

change your search:

UN

[Cynster]

To put it simply, right now we are fighting against terrorists, and Israel has the guts (more than we have, also considering their situation) to fight back, and they take action. In my opinion that makes them our greatest ally right now. It doesn't mean I think any less of Britain. I know they are fighting with us, but Israel is doing more, and logically so because of their location. Sure, it's not fair, but that's where they are, that's what they do, and because of my political position, I see them as our greatest ally right now.

 

But like I said, I don't want to argue about opinions.