bloxyman Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Lyons' Legacy - Another Brotherhood Questline: Ever since Fallout 4's GECK was released, I've been searching for a mod that would make the Brotherhood of Steel a faction worth siding with for Good Guys like me. The closest I came to this was the mod, "The Danse Dilemma," but it wasn't what I was looking for. Project Valkyrie also came out, which had the player help Sarah Lyons become elder again, but I was never fond of CBBE or lore-breaking mods. A few days ago, I came up with the idea to make my own mod where you would help Sarah Lyons become Elder of the Brotherhood again. I'll leave the main details out, but the end result I'm aiming for is a mod that will be immersive, lore-friendly, & simplistic. If you are interested, please PM my account here on the nexus. I'm looking for scripters & ideas. Any help is welcome. -Bloxyman- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thuggysmurf Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 You are welcome to read the mod documentation or look at the mod files if there's any confusion as to what is contained in the mod you reference. Good luck with your mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taryl80 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) Is Sarah Lyons not dead? (that is not a troll question, a serious one). I remember to hear this either in the game, or by Shoddycast/Oxhorn saying that. Would make that "lore friendly" difficult :smile:. Though not impossible. Edit: I have taken a short look at Shoddycast and it is just a theory. But... a good one. Edited June 5, 2019 by taryl80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thuggysmurf Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Sarah's death is referenced in the base game only on a terminal in the Prydwen:https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/The_Prydwen_terminal_entries#The_Rise_of_Elder_Maxson "When Elder Owyn Lyons died, care of young Arthur Maxson passed to Sarah Lyons, Owyn's daughter, who was then named Elder in his place. But when Sarah fell in battle shortly thereafter, things became complicated." Bethesda games use unreliable narrator, and Elders of the BoS don't typically fight in battles (chain of command), and there were no major battles recorded after the one with the Enclave, which Sarah survived, so it's left up to the player whether that suspiciously brief terminal entry is true, or whether perhaps something else happened. There's a bunch of YouTube videos with theories, e.g. the Shoddycast and VincylicPuma ones are fun, but it's ultimately up to the player to decide what really happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloxyman Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 Thank you, Thuggysmurf. Don't get me wrong, your quest mods are extraordinary. I just resent using CBBE, & just have a different view on what is "Lore-Friendly" or not. Taryl80, Proctor Quinlan says that Sarah Lyons "fell in combat," but there have been multiple instances where a person or group of people (The Enclave) were said to be destroyed (Control Station ENCLAVE, or simply Enclave Oil Rig being nuked by the Chosen One), only to make an appearance again (Raven Rock & Adams Airforce Base). I'm trying to use this to my advantage. The story for my mod is that Sarah (barely) survived an ambush by Henry Casdin & his outcasts which killed all members of Lyons' Pride. There is more to the story, but I first need to figure out how to script the whole alternate Brotherhood questline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taryl80 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) I love making quests... As long as I also don't need to script. Without the default scripts in the fo4 I would be lost xD. Luckily, the fo4 creation kit comes with a ton of scripts and also examples in already existing quests. That maybe helps you. Maybe also she was left in the desert because her enemies thought she is dead. There are so many possiblitys. Wish you luck with that^^. Edited June 5, 2019 by taryl80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thuggysmurf Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 @Bloxyman: Quinlan at no point verbally says that Sarah Lyons "fell in combat". Quinlan has no dialogue about Sarah at all. The words "Sarah Lyons" are never mentioned verbally in vanilla Fallout 4, and there are only four verbal references to Owyn Lyons: 1) Madison Li: "Even though Lyons let me go, there were a few others in the ranks that thought I knew too much."2) Bos Generic Soldier: "I'm proud to be serving under Elder Maxson. I had enough of Lyons and his foolish ways."3) BoS Generic Soldier: "You know, before getting shipped to the Commonwealth, I thought Elder Lyons still had some good points."4) Paladin Danse: "The Minutemen remind me of the Brotherhood when Elder Lyons was in charge... unfocused and far too charitable for their own good." The only written mention of Sarah Lyons in vanilla Fallout 4 is via Quinlan's terminal, linked above. Bethesda did try to make it clear in Quinlan's first entry, "The Rise of Elder Maxson, Opening Notes", that Quinlan is at minimum a somewhat biased historian ("Long live Elder Maxson and long live the Brotherhood!"), and it is left to the player to determine to what extent he is a reliable one. It's possible Quinlan believes Sarah is dead (i.e. Bethesda is fond of using unreliable narrator), without knowing for sure whether she is. A strength of Bethesda games is they give you NPC perspectives from conflicting sides, and you get to decide for yourself what is true or not. Re: CBBE, if you resent using it, no one is forcing you, nor do either of the quest mods you've mentioned require it. Again, check the mod documentation and/or mod files if there's any confusion as to what is or isn't in a mod. Re: lore, there's an article in the mod documentation for PV on history of Fallout lore and how it ties in with Sarah. Not following the purpose behind throwing shade at other quest mods in the opening post based on a misunderstanding of what they contain, although if the fact-gathering process consists of watching the MxR video reviews of those mods, that's certainly understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloxyman Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) Thuggysmurf,About Sarah Lyons being mentioned only in the terminal, & not by Quinlan himself, I know that, & is what I was trying to say. I should've worded what I wrote differently. You're correct about the "Decide for yourself what is true or not" part, too. As for CBBE, you're right. No one is forcing me, which is why I uninstalled it a long time ago, & replaced it with EVB. Also, I don't really watch MxR. I'm more of a fan of Al Chestbreach, & I get most of my facts from the Fallout Wiki, & occasionally the Storyteller Series by ShoddyCast. Sorry if that sounded harsh. The GECK just crashed-to-desktop on me, which is extremely frustrating. Edited June 5, 2019 by bloxyman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetyson Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 I know this is an old thread but everywhere else I've seen this Sarah stuff mentioned everyone assumes that "fell in battle" equals death, but actually it can also "merely" mean completely incapacitated by a severe wound, at least until the battle was over (but probably left permanently incapacitated, i.e. disabled). So maybe what caused her succession was her being invalided into early retirement. Anyway, I've included a google books link example here, from Amazing Women of the Civil War: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=c-nhVUKzhhkC&pg=PT53&lpg=PT53&dq=%22after+he+fell+in+battle+he%22&source=bl&ots=ySmBDUE-bW&sig=ACfU3U1V17FlhecxLMPlzXZ-JohLLnnP1g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisz_ak29buAhXFRxUIHVskAS4Q6AEwBnoECAcQAg#v=onepage&q=%22after%20he%20fell%20in%20battle%20he%22&f=false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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