Star Wars prequels and Matrix sequels

[Adrian Laguna]

I am under the impression that with the exeption of hard-core fans, people, in general, didn't like/were disapointed by the Star Wars prequels and Matrix sequels.

I have one thing to ask: WHY!?

Why are comments like this seen quite often (at least by me):

They [star Wars prequels] are garbage not worthy of the Star Wars name

 

Maybe people were just expecting too much.

 

My opinion in the Stars Wars prequels is that it is the same thing as the originals but with upgraded special effects. I also believe it was good thing they where made, the fact that the very first Star Wars movie is titled "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope" did not escape me the second time I watched the movie (a couple of days after the first time). Oh and, WHY DO PEOPLE HATE JAR JAR BINKS?! I don't like him, but my opinion is that he is just another not-so-good attempt at comic relief, just like R2-D2 and C3PO; they all have a couple of shining moments, and are a minor, and ignorable, annoyance the rest of the time. Han Solo and Chewbacca provide the only truly well executed comic relief in the series. I also thought Darth Vader strangling people long-distance to be pretty funny, but that's just me.

 

The Matrix sequels... unlike the Star Wars prequels, it is my belief that they where unnecessary. I personally liked them, even though it was more of the same thing with nothing new in them, they were still enjoyable. I will agree with what most people say in that the original was better, but only because it doesn't leave any loose threads.

The Matrix Has You is a good collection of flash movies by various artists, Matrix fans should like it. I am mentioning it because one of the artists, Joseph Blanchete aka Legendary Frog says:

The build up [to the final fight] is tremendous... overwhelming... how can it be anything but spectacular? The final showdown between good and evil in the pouring rain... And what do we get? More Kung Fu... while flying

Well what did he expect? All of the movies up to that point had one of two types of combat: A - kung fu; & B - using massive firepower with lots, and lots of bullets flying around. If he was expecting Neo and Smith to suddenly start throwing energy balls like Goku and Vegeta then he went to see the wrong movie.

 

So again, someone explain to me what is wrong with these movies. Please write a defendable argument, don't say "They just sucked."

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Mods - Though not the intention of this thread, I think this might start a debate on the movies. If a debate does start, please move it (the debate or the whole thread, doesn't matter to me) to the apropiate section of the forums.

[Malchik]

It is a fact of life that most people are naturally conservative with a small c. They do not take naturally to change and are by and large far less open-minded than they tell you they are. Films will never be as good as books if you read the books first. Sequels will never be as good as originals. Don't ask me why it is but that's the way we are. There is something safe with familiarity. Change represents danger and unease. Of course there are exceptions but I'm afraid the basic tenet is true.

 

There was something utterly compelling about the first Star Wars film; it went on to influence the genre and spawned pastiches, generally an indication of it being 'special'. The sequels, marginally less good IMO were nevertheless of the same time. The prequels are very different and should be looked on as such. I 'enjoyed' them as films but I did not find in them the level of compulsion generated by the first film. Perhaps they try slightly too hard?

 

And I don't actually feel a compelling urge to know what happened before Star Wars 4 - we already know the outcome. The element of surprise is missing.

 

So that's my view. As films I would not say 'they sucked' but there was no way they could capture the impact of SW4 and they should not be judged in that light. As someone once said 'comparisons are odious'.

 

I have not seen Matrix 2 and 3 so cannot comment on them but perhaps the same applies.

[Marxist ßastard]

Well, there have been a few sequels that have surpassed the originals... Prequels, however? Never.

 

As for the Matrix sequels, although I've only seen one, the common complaint is that the movies were unnecessary and their plot deviates from that set forth in the original too much -- the plot of the second sequel, I've heard, even deviates from the plot of the first (even when the fanboys were using that "Matrix 2 is only half of a movie" excuse to explain the poor ending of "Reloaded").

 

So, without further ado, the obligatory quote...

 

Scream 2:

 

PROFESSOR

So, you're saying that someone is trying to make a real life sequel?

 

RANDY

STAB 2? Why would anyone want to do that? Sequels suck!

 

MICKEY

It is common fact, there have been many sequels that have succeeded their original.

 

CICI

Name one.

 

GUY

Aliens, far better than the first.

 

CICI

Yeah, well there's no accounting for taste.

 

RANDY

Thank you, "Ridley Scott" rules. Name another.

 

GUY #2

No, Aliens is a classic. "Get away from her, you b****!"

 

RANDY

I believe the line is, "Stay away from her, you b****." This is film class right?

 

MICKEY

T2.

 

CICI

You've got a hard on for Cameron.

 

RANDY

Yeah, a big one.

 

GUY

The first Terminator is a classic.

 

RANDY

"Sarah Connor?" "Yes?" BOOM!

 

The class laughs.

 

GUY #2

House 2: The Second Story.

 

CICI

What?

 

RANDY

The horror genre was destroyed by sequels.

 

MICKEY

No, wait, I got it. The Godfather: Part 2.

 

Class agrees while Randy does a Marlon Brando impression that makes the class laugh. Suddenly, Sidney shows up and her presence is immediately known to Randy.

 

PROFESSOR

We'll continue the sequel discussion tomorrow.

 

GIRL

So, Mr. Originality, what would you make different?

 

RANDY

I'd let the geek get the girl.

[dunmer_jediknight]

haveing been a star wars fan since seeing it on the big screen in '77 i have to say that the prequels were bad in the sence that the story was overcomed by the special effects. Yes I am one of those people who HATE Jar-Jar Binks,becaues he was a lame attemt at amuesing the children in the theater. C-3PO and A2D2 were still a decent duo but George Lucus once said that a story with just special effects is not much of a story. He lost that somewere along the line (willow pehaps :P ). And yes I am going to see SW4 when it comes out in may of '05 because I am still a diehard SW fan.

[thanateros]

Plain and simple folks. Martrix changed the entire face of visual cinema and fell flat on its face by trying to introduce a plot to a trilogy that should have just been aimed through the lens of the Bollywood approach. Shear entertainment, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Lucas thinks he matters, which he doesn't at all. The man behind the myth thought he could pump out good prequels because of his name. I recall seeing in the news paper a picture of middle aged men standing outside Toy's R Us waiting for it to open so they could nab Episode I characters. Granted I went in the afternoon, but I was 15 and collected them at the time (I have about 200 figures in a box somewhere). I simply didn't deliver. The second one, though tolerable, didn't deliver. I'm terrified that i'll be spending 6-7 bucks to go see the third one opening night.

 

IMO Lucas needs to brownose his way to even sit in the presence of Peter Jackson, who could certainly teach Lucas a thing or two about making a visually pleasing movie while developing a plot.

[Breton Thief Oriana]

Well hold on, I liked "The Empire Strikes Back" best of the first three star wars, just cause it was the best of them, so maybe thats the exception to the sequel rule. The whole battle on hoth, that was cool...and then cloud city...and the treachery...and the unyeilding list of downer moments...it was just well written, and had a larger scale than Episode Four. You ever notice how all the cartoons try and spawn a parody of starwars in some way? how that happens is inexplicable, its simple things like the end scene of episode four where they go down the trench to blow up the death star with a photon torpedo (Or was it lasers? I forget). Well, anyway, you see that all the time at other cartoons and such...its crazy! in terms of the matrix sequels, Reloaded probably is MUCH better than Revolutions, I dont know I havent seen the last one. Especially the scene with the creator of it, that was just sooo amazingly written.

[vandorssen]

Hmm… Could it possibly be too much of a good thing. Some could argue that the original SW Trilogy and the original Matrix were so good they could not be improved. Any attempts to further or alter the story were doomed before the ink even dried. If it is not broken, do not fix it. This is why Square (reportedly) is so stubborn about making sequels or prequels to the Final Fantasy line of games (save FFX-2, an experiment), even though they intentionally leave the stories unfinished or open-ended.

 

Others yet may suggest that the near legendary standing of the above originals was undeserved from the beginning. Attempting to extend the franchise with prequels, sequels, or whatever was beating an already dead horse. Rarely does a sequel (or post-production prequel) succeed where the original itself fell short.

 

Jackson had it relatively easy. He merely walked in the very large footsteps of a true master story teller. Sure he bent the plot (in some cases so much that the end result resembled nothing of the original), and added some filler, but the story he was portraying was already written and had been meticulously revised and purified by a genius of his craft.

 

But as long as we, the paying public, demand to know what ultimately happened to Neo, or just how Luke’s Dad got caught up with the Borg, we will still have money grubbing Hollywood producers running the good name of established film franchises in to the ground. Just stay tuned for the next Indiana Jones sequel.

[m_gobes]

I really liked the original starwars trilogy and I thought the Phantom Menace was decently put together but the clone wars seems to not have any storyline to it.

 

now onto Matrix Personally I believe the first one had very little plot and was greatly improved in the second movie. the third one had in my opinion the best storyline... except one thing. the ending they really never explained wha happened to neo did he die or did he come back from the dead again? I don't know. Oh well there's my 2 cents anyway.

[Ancalagon]

SW ( the first trilogy) was incredible. The best, IMO was 'Empire...' because it was such a downer. Nothing good really happened in that movie. The third installment 'Return of the Jedi' was ok, nowhere near as good as 'Empire', but it was decent. However, in 'Jedi' we see Lucas's first really obvious attempt at drawing in a younger audience with the introduction of the Rats With Spears...err I mean Ewoks... <_<.

 

Three reasons why EP I and II sucked (I moreso than II).

 

1: Lucas is the first Director (IMMHO) to actually abuse special effects and CGI to the point where it's basically a few actors aainst a blue screen. Read: cheaper way as opposed to building sets. Everything feels fake and rendered.

 

2: Lucas again pulls a 'Jedi' by the introduction of That Walking Platypus Monstrosity, and making the enemy Robots so when the kiddies see a lightsaber impale and behead a robot they don't go into shock. (The whole CGI Robotic army in my opinion was copout). By trying to cater to a younger (read five years to twelve years) Lucas effectivley dumbs down the entire movie.

 

3: This goes for EP I, Anakin was a little wimp. We never see his dark side come out at all. I mean, he's a slave, he's probably abused and repressed beyond words, and yet he's so bloody happy! ( I blame Haily Joel Osment for this one, and Lucas for casting him). I mean, he could have unknowingly reached into the force and crushed Sebulba (the Racer part) in order to win. That would have been awsome. In EP II we see only a little of the Dark Side in Anakin come out when he slaughters and entire Tusken Raider village for the death of his mother. That was b.itchin, but again a copout because Lucas cuts away and never shows us the massacare.

 

I could go on and on, and I will later, but thus far those are the three reasons why the two EP's have sucked...