Meet your meat

[MyDogsTale]

Please watch this movie before posting, it's totally optional but it gives you a perspective of what im talking about - http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=mym2002

 

And read this if you want - http://www.goveg.com/feat/faq.html

 

Now, is it moraly correct to do upon another creature what we probably fear the most, beeing rounded up, put into cages, then slaughterd?

Meat is also a great consumer of other resources, it take about 6 kg of grain to get 1 kg of meat, this grain could have been used to feed those who starve.

 

Meat is unhealthy since the body isn't constructed to break it down, iv'e read that the average american has about 2 kg of undigested meat in ther guts...but this may be a direct result of almost only eating white bread...

Eating to much meat may result in salts gathering in your joints, it hurts and you will never get rid of it.

 

Im personally a Vegan, i don't eat meat or any products from animals (eggs,milk etc etc), i do this because i don't think it's correct to put something into a cage and treat it like a machine, and then kill it when it is too tired or becomes sick.

No, i don't think it's correct to trade lives for money.

 

And humanity would survive without meat...and we would probably be better off without it... so what is the point?

 

what do you think?

[Luxar]

meat tastes good. i like it.

[Marxist ßastard]

I agree. Instead of animals, we should eat PETA.

 

Obligatory Simpsons Quote:

 

Lisa:  You do Yoga?

Jesse: Yeah, but I started *before* it was cool.

Lisa:  My name's Lisa Simpson.  I think your protest was incredibly brave.

Jesse: Thank you.  This planet needs every friend it can get.

Lisa:  Oh, the earth is the best!  That's why I'm a vegetarian.

Jesse: Heh.  Well, that's a start.

Lisa:  Uh, well, I was thinking of going vegan.

Jesse: [chuckles] I'm a level 5 vegan -- I won't eat anything that casts a shadow.

Lisa:  Wow.  Um ... I started an organic compost pile at home.

Jesse: Only at home?  You mean you don't pocket-mulch?  [takes out pocket suff for Lisa to feel]

Lisa:  Oh, it's so decomposed!  Do you think I could join Dirt First?

Jesse: Well ... we *might* have an opening at the poser level.

Lisa:  Oh, thank you, thank you!

 

Nothing to see here... Move along.

[m_gobes]

I eat meat every day. I wouldn't know what to do without it.

[Zmid]

Right, as this is in Debates, I'm going to treat it like a debate, OK?

 

Now, is it moraly correct to do upon another creature what we probably fear the most, beeing rounded up, put into cages, then slaughterd?

 

The alternative being what exactly? In the legitimately run farms, the animals are well kept whilst alive and killed humanely and so quickly they're dead before they hit the floor. Of course, there are farms where this is NOT true, but those are generally flouting a few laws. Plus, of course, you have to remember that many of these species would not even exist if it weren't for the fact humans have been farming them for thousands of years and, as such, have been bred into their current form.

 

Meat is also a great consumer of other resources, it take about 6 kg of grain to get 1 kg of meat, this grain could have been used to feed those who starve.

 

I hate to break it to you, but the world already produces more than enough food to feed the entire Human Race. The reason this doesn't happen is that many of the so-called 'civilised' countries are too greedy to export it to the famine-stricken areas for free.

 

Meat is unhealthy since the body isn't constructed to break it down

 

Wrong. Meat in excess is unhealthy. Meat in moderation is actually good for you. For one, it decreases the risk of heart conditions.

 

iv'e read that the average american has about 2 kg of undigested meat in ther guts...but this may be a direct result of almost only eating white bread...

 

This is because America is one of the worst, if not THE worst country in the world for it's citizens eating too much meat. This does not mean meat is bad for you, it means too much meat is bad for you.

 

Eating to much meat may result in salts gathering in your joints, it hurts and you will never get rid of it.

 

The key phrase here being 'too much'.

 

Im personally a Vegan, i don't eat meat or any products from animals (eggs,milk etc etc), i do this because i don't think it's correct to put something into a cage and treat it like a machine, and then kill it when it is too tired or becomes sick.

 

Fair enough. I don't agree with your choice and your reasons, but I don't have to - you're free to follow that path whether I agree with it or not.

 

No, i don't think it's correct to trade lives for money.

 

Killing something for the sole purpose of making money? No. Killing something to feed other people in exchange for money? Yes. If you simply take the money aspect out of it, this is what happens in nature, for example, a lioness hunting and killing a deer to feed her cubs.

 

And humanity would survive without meat

 

Agreed. Humanity is adaptable.

 

and we would probably be better off without it

 

Debatable at best. Completely wrong, in my view.

[MyDogsTale]

Right, as this is in Debates, I'm going to treat it like a debate, OK?

 

Thank you White Wolf, i was beginning to lose hope <_<

 

(BTW, im not trying to force veganism upon you, fellow debaters, if i get enough people to respond to this i will be using it as an example in my social class project at school :) )

 

This debate is really all about choices that you make, so:

 

The alternative being what exactly? In the legitimately run farms, the animals are well kept whilst alive and killed humanely and so quickly they're dead before they hit the floor. Of course, there are farms where this is NOT true, but those are generally flouting a few laws. Plus, of course, you have to remember that many of these species would not even exist if it weren't for the fact humans have been farming them for thousands of years and, as such, have been bred into their current form.

 

What makes man so much greater than animals? I know im probably speaking to a lot of deaf ear's here but...what exactly gave us the right to kill living, breathing and thinking animals?

 

Would you liked to be hung upside down in a slaughter house, have a knife slicing you throat and then lying on the floor gasping for 1 minute seeing life fade away? I think not.

Many chickens are alive when they go into the plucking machines, is this torture?

When it comes to animals, no, it is then seen as a matter of necessity (fast production and money). but if i decided to to the same thing to a human beeing (put him in to the automatic skinning machine while he is fully concious, and then say: Hey! I thought he was sedated or dead) then it would be a outrageous act of inhumanety!

 

Now many of the farms im OK with, the thing that realy bothers me are the slaughter houses, where the farmers have no controll over the methods used to slaughter their former livestock, i grew up in a farming community and i know that many farmers care about their animals (small time farmers that is)

 

Now if the Milk and egg farms began to treat their animals better then i would probably go back to drinking milk and eating egg's...but then things would have to change a lot, im talking about no more cramped cages for the hens, that cows would have the possibility to walk outside the farm and into free air, but when the milk truck comes to collect the milk the cow would be guided inside again...those are the changes that would have to come before i went into Vegitarism instead of veaganism again.

 

But then White Wolf your last words troubles me, along with many other animal right followers and vegans...what should be done about the livestock that has been bred forth? To be honest this question stumps me, i could allways say that the only humane way would be to kill them...but this is wrong according the the views that has followed me since i was about 12 years old (im 17 now),i can honestly not think of any way, but im going to a Animal rights movement meeting soon, so i'll bring that up for debate there, i'll post what solution we came up with.

 

Wrong. Meat in excess is unhealthy. Meat in moderation is actually good for you. For one, it decreases the risk of heart conditions.

 

No, not exactly, the human bowel's are too long to break the meat down (why i don't know, im not a doctor...but i have consulted one), thus staying there and CAN do damage to you, im not saying that it will do damage to you, but it can (jeez im such a health freak :whistling: ).

Well, a glass of wine per day can also decrease the risk for heart conditions, working out decreases the risk for heart conditions, also there ARE alot of vitamins and minerals in meat, but you can get your daily dose from a small pill.

 

I hate to break it to you, but the world already produces more than enough food to feed the entire Human Race. The reason this doesn't happen is that many of the so-called 'civilised' countries are too greedy to export it to the famine-stricken areas for free

 

I know this. Yes, meat is a luxary, but meat still consumes alot of resources, IF i we suddenly stopped eating meat, we would still have many many farms producing vegitables, then it "might" be cheaper to export them instead of storing them (but getting the whole world to stop eating the meat for an experiment...yeah, that would be the day)

 

Killing something for the sole purpose of making money? No. Killing something to feed other people in exchange for money? Yes. If you simply take the money aspect out of it, this is what happens in nature, for example, a lioness hunting and killing a deer to feed her cubs.

 

But the lioness doesn't have the choice does she? we do, and seeing that humans "are so smart" we should have found an alternative to meat along time ago...The consuming of meat lies more in old traditions and normalityn than in need. hence: we are killing for money since we are having a choice in general....Just my point of view

[Breton Thief Oriana]

iv'e read that the average american has about 2 kg of undigested meat in ther guts...but this may be a direct result of almost only eating white bread...

 

Actually, you heard that from the movie "Beverly Hills Cop". remember when Rosewood sayd that to tagert? other than that its pretty much an urban myth. We also were told, "gum takes 7 years to digest! dont swallow it!". that was ANOTHER urban myth. Meat digests at the same rate everything else digests, if not faster. Considder this -- these cows we are eating have 4 sthomachs. This is cause they eat grass, which takes an EXCRUTIATING time to digest...so they need all four.

[dunmer_jediknight]

good topic, haveing been raised on a farm i can understand what you are saying and that some of what you said does make sence. I do eat meat and will continue to eat meat . But I do respect you for makeing your decision and sticking with it . I do have to defend the tourture statement by saying that a chicken's throut is not cut and then the bird is left to slowly die( I'm sure you were just dramatizing this) but what really happens is quick and relitively painless (is death ever painless?).this is fact because there are laws that the meat processing companies have to follow if they want to stay in bussness.I'm sure there are some sick people out there that kill animals only to make them suffer but i am not one of those people. I was raised to believe that you only kill what you eat.Yes there is a lot of wast out there , but we are human and we live in a socity that ,on the large scale, does not care if we wast more then we consume.

[mrpyromania]

(Off Topic-How can anyone know if it's a painless death. I mean,it's not like weve tried it and seen what it felt like.)

Anywho, Woudn't getting rid of meat(no selling,exporting)not only (in a manner of speaking) kick the contry in the nuts,but cause all kinds of uproar? You would be suprised to how some people react. Take Mad Cow for example. An oncle of mine was enraged that they coorrintined some farms in Alberta(I think) beacuse of mad cow he said "It's fine meat,and the goverment has no right to stop us from eating what we want!" I found this very....unsensible,but anyway...

[MyDogsTale]

Just wanted to clear something out:

 

Most cows are hung upside down by their legs, so that they can easly be transported just by pushing it. ( the cow/ox has been genetically alterd so it is VERY heavy, try to imagine your whole bodyweight resting on two feet that isn't constructed to hold you up for a long time anyways)

Cows get their throat slit, often by a emplyee at the slughterhouse... a more humane way of killing would be to give them a shot in the head, since getting your throat cut may take up to 2 minutes or more to die from...this cannot be fun or painless.

 

The chickens are also hung upside down, the wheight resting on their feet is greater by compariso than cow's.

Now there are few ways that is beeing used to kill chickens before they are plucked:

 

1: an electrical shocks is given by a machine to the chicken, i most cases this leaves the chicken unconcius or awake, BUT NOT DEAD, the chicken then gets a small glass object pushed up it's ass to check for salmonella (wether or not the chicken is contaminated or not is not shown before the chicken is on the market).

 

 

2. The chicken goes trough a Throat slicing machine, in most cases the slicer is saw formed, so it's not realy a slicer, it's a throat saw (that probably hurts), if it is a slicer then its probably not very sharp from over use...this method leaves MOST of the chicken's dead but not all.

 

3. This has been known to happen in asia and eastern europe (some of the countries where animals a treated the worst is located there) Water pressure is used, thats right, the hose is aimed for the neck of the chicken, hopfully the water pressure is enough to break their necks...but in most cases it's not, it rateher gives the chicken a nasty beating before it it plucked alive.

 

all of theese cases have been well documented, there are more sinister ways beeing used, but they have not been documented (as in a video) yet as i know of.

 

PS:And no, i did'nt get the UNDIGESTED-MEAT-IN-THE-BOWLS information from beverly hills cops...those fact's has been established by a doctor i consulted and noumerous Vegan fact papers i have read trough the years

 

PPS: Gum is gum, how the hell can you digest it? gum in your bowls has been known to create appendicitis (again im no doctor i don't know why)