Please vote no on Proposition 8

[maYuYang]

Wow, really interesting..

 

 

 

 

This subject makes me sad. I mean that this, a decision which will or would castrate others life even becomes a subject.

 

I'm somewhat glad to not live in america, even though it's called United States, to me it seems it's anything else, but not united. At this very moment, women get mutilated and children starve to death in other countries, but what do so many ppl think about: prohibiting Gay Marrige. Yeah, sure! Why not?! Why not just deciding for others, c'mon, that's fun, isn't it? Wait a moment, what does that remind me to,... Hmmm, wasn't it slavery? Dictating? Nazis? Why you think? Well, later one decided that other ppl, non german or non-"Arische Rasse"(I guess it was that what they called themselves) are not human anymore^^. Isn't that a great decision? C'mon, you got to see the advantages: Non-humans do not have any human rights.

Yes, that example is extreme, I apologize to anyone who felt offended. What I want to point out is that we, gay ppl, normal humans like anyone else are sick of being dictated by others who do not understand or feel or whatever our point and narrow our possiblities or rights out of minor reasons. Minor reasons because adopting and tex advantages are nothing more but minor reasons. Someone said(I really forgot who it was) that gays are not abnormal, but the possiblity that they could reduce their taxes by marring is wrong, thus they shouldn't be allowed to marry in a traditional way. I know that this isn't an exact quote. This is a wonderful example for a non plausible argument, simple because "gay" does not automatically mean "Threat to straight" or "A way to save taxes". Another argument being the adopt rights which are as hilarious as the previous examples. Aeryn, Michlo and some others of you already explained their/these points quite well so what I want to add is that us gays do not want to abuse the system by any means. We do not want to marriage only to lower our taxes or to shock others, but because we love each other. Might be that some individuals will marry not because of love, but because of the advantages they might get, but these can be found on both sides, may it be gay or straight. It's called contract marrige and even though many of us deny it, it can be found in every country, including those which do not officially allow gay marriage.

 

Basically, by same sex marriage we understand that we are allowed to live together in a loving relationship protected by all laws responsible for that.

That union civil thing(we call it registered partnership) is a compromise. It's no final solution. I however would accept a solution which will give me same rights but may have another name, as long as it's clearly distinguishable. Not Civil Unionship or something that sounds like 2 companies made a contract, but let's say Gay-Marriage. I could live with that even though I'd prefer Marriage. With tolerance, those against this would understand(see Toleration)

 

I cannot understand why so many ppl feel offended by gays or hate them so much, really, I do not understand that point. "Abnormal", "wrong", "Disabled", Oh my, so many words which were used to insult me irl... I simply do not understand it. And to be honest, I am very understandable, even though I have that ADS..., Even though I have the Borderline Syndrom, I love to learn and to understand others Arguments, but this subject.. Well, as said above, it makes me sad.

 

You know what? This is a very private story, and

 

beside 2 friends

and my wife, noone knows about this: I attempted to commit

 

suicide. Not only

once or twice, but 4 times. And you want to know why?

 

Because with the at that

time present laws, I was not allowed to live with

 

my love. Yeah, she's from

another country, she would never recieve the

 

permission to stay unless she

married. I didn't want to live in such a

 

world, a world which ppl want to decide

over my life.

And you want to know more? I'm glad that all my attempts failed. Now, we are married. The Petition gave me hope and finally went through. We are married now, even though some ppl would not call it marriage, but some sort of partnership.

 

I don't care what others will say about my post now, call it or me stupid, do as you wish, but remember one thing:

The highest result of education is tolerance.

Helen Keller, 1880-1968

[herosinger]

Thanks for sharing, maYuYang. You make some very good points.

[dezdimona]

Wow, really interesting..

 

And you want to know more? I'm glad that all my attempts failed. Now, we are married. The Petition gave me hope and finally went through. We are married now, even though some ppl would not call it marriage, but some sort of partnership.

 

I don't care what others will say about my post now, call it or me stupid, do as you wish, but remember one thing:

The highest result of education is tolerance.

Helen Keller, 1880-1968[/color]

 

 

" a friend is someone who comes in,when the rest of the world has gone out"

Know that your never alone or without a friend as long as I live and breathe!

[Sniperwhere]

This is a quoted exchange that took place on another forum:

 

I apologize for the language in the quote, but it took place in a section of the forum with more lenient rules.

ME:

Prop 8 is sad. And, it's illegal in regards to the constitution, a breach of human rights, and should never have been made.

 

And yes, we do need to calm the vulk down. Even me. I've been more verbal about this than anyone I've seen. I shouted pretty rude things to a group of picketers that were holding signs that say "yes on 8" I shouldn't have been surprised seeing as the people who live in that town are famous for being pretty stupid in general. And no, I'm not saying that everyone who voted yes is stupid.

 

T3chno:

The Constitution says nothing about marriages.

 

I'm glad it passed. Be angry at me if you wish, I just believe that a marriage is a man + woman.

 

Me:

The constitution states that the fundamental rights of any person are not allowed to be infringed upon. that's exactly what prop 8 does.

 

What i don't understand is the people who don't want gays to marry because they don't like it. It doesn't involve them. it's about giving a group of people the rights that every human being is entitled to by birth and law. And it's about allowing gays the right to marry which shouldn't be decided by an outside party that is not gay or in any way involved in this matter. I see it as horribly selfish, and down right upsetting that people could think this way.

 

this is my opinion, as that is yours. But even so, a "separate but equal" policy in which this creates is just stupid. Remember how the first turned out?

 

Someday gay marriage will be legal. it will be accepted. And if you disagree, take a look at the African Americans. Back when their rights were stripped from them, everyone was saying they will never have rights. And now look, we have an African American president and they have the exact same rights as everyone else. So answer me this: Even if you do not accept this, why try and prevent it when in the end, it's gonna happen. Why delay the inevitable?

 

Impulse:

I agree, Snipes. If you delay the inevitable, you're only hurting yourself in the end when gay finally have the right to marry.

 

Like I said before. Listen, T3chno. I don't think you should really give a poo if gay people want to marry. It's their choice and their lives and that shouldn't be *banned* with.

 

T3chno:

I think I should care. It's against the definition of a marriage. Why can't they just call it something else, like a contract.

 

Impulse:

What is the definition of marriage, though, really? It's a bond between two people. Unless you're saying gay people aren't people?

 

Me:

technically, it's the union between a man and women, but saying they shouldn't get married because of that reason is really stupid. i mean, come on! It's a *ban* definition. People vulk up word meanings on purpose all the time! Why now is it such a big deal to preserve it?!

 

if that's what's gonna happen, then from this point on, Why don't i issue warns for getting the definition of a word wrong? And if you keep misusing the word, how about i suspend and ban? If you seriously think that marriage should stick to its origional meaning then all words need to stick to their origional meaning. Doesn't seem fair? Well neither does restricting marriage to only man and women.

 

T3chno:

Dude, it's not about the literal definition on words. It's about the whole idea on it. I hate how people are considering this to be like the Civil Rights Movement. It's not the same at all. That was about race. Gay marriage isn't about race. It's about the same sex marrying the same sex.

 

Me:

Not the same at all? So stripping gays of there rights has no similarities to stripping a race of their rights? I see a lot of similarities. Save for one difference and that's who the victim is. Who cares whether it is or isn't the Civil Rights movement! in the end, a group of people are being stripped of rights simply because another group of people didn't agree with it and think that they should have to dictate how things work! If anything is or should be wrong, it should be just that. Dictating their opinions on others to preserve whatever reason they may have for going against it.

 

About there the debate finished.

[Michlo]

Thank you maYuYand and Sniperwhere.

[PrideAssassin]

My 2 cents: MARRIAGE has been around for straight people forever.

Get over it.

Homos have Civil Unions in California WHICH BESTOW UPON THEM THE SAME EXACT RIGHTS AND BENEFITS IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA AS A TRADITIONAL HETERO MARRIAGE!

Keep your civil unions, and leave marriage the hell alone.

Nobody stripped them of anything. They are attempting to strip heteros of their most central institution.

 

I don't approve of homos personally, but people are gonna do what people are gonna do. People will commit incest, bestiality, molest children, and be homos no matter what I think. Just don't bring your views all up in my face, or I'm gonna reciprocate.

Guess which way I voted.

I really dislike the proposition system in this godforsaken hippie state.

Damn, I hate California.

[herosinger]

My 2 cents: MARRIAGE has been around for straight people forever.

Get over it.

Homos have Civil Unions in California WHICH BESTOW UPON THEM THE SAME EXACT RIGHTS AND BENEFITS IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA AS A TRADITIONAL HETERO MARRIAGE!

Keep your civil unions, and leave marriage the hell alone.

Nobody stripped them of anything. They are attempting to strip heteros of their most central institution.

 

I don't approve of homos personally, but people are gonna do what people are gonna do. People will commit incest, bestiality, molest children, and be homos no matter what I think. Just don't bring your views all up in my face, or I'm gonna reciprocate.

Guess which way I voted.

I really dislike the proposition system in this godforsaken hippie state.

Damn, I hate California.

The problem is that you are entirely incorrect. Allow me to break it down for you:

 

Nobody stripped them of anything.

Proposition 8 stripped homosexual couples of the right to marry, a right granted them by the Cali supreme court.

 

They are attempting to strip heteros of their most central institution.

Who is? I was entirely unaware of an effort to abolish the institution of marriage among heterosexual couples.

 

Just don't bring your views all up in my face, or I'm gonna reciprocate.

Homosexuals didn't bring Prop 8 to the table, conservative Christians did.

 

Damn, I hate California.

Time to move?