ChristyPhilip Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) Hello there, I'm new to Fallout NV and modding. I've installed about 60 plugins. The problem I have is with sorting the esm and esp together in MO2. ESM files always tend to stay on top of the list and it really isn't the way to get the mods into working according to some. I'm trying to combine FCO and FNVRS3 as mentioned in a tutorial but the ESM files always stay on the top which shouldn't happen according to the tutorial. Can somebody tell me how to fix this?And also please check my whole load order and tell me if it's right or not Edited June 16, 2019 by ChristyPhilip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubiousintent Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Don't know where you have heard that about ESM files, but they DO always go at the top in Bethesda game (at least the older ones like FNV), and they do have a particular sequence they need to be placed in that order. ESP files are "modifications" to ESM files, so they have to load after; and again they often have a preferred sequence due to what are called "dependencies" upon other plugins (referred to as "master files") preceding them. With modded games its the sequence, not merely the list of mods, which is the cause of many problems. "LOOT"'s sort gives a good first approximation, correcting the most obvious issues and is sufficient for most players. You can make minor adjustments to the order and tell LOOT how to remember them. It's in the on-line documentation under "Metadata". Instructions on how to copy it's list for posting are in the "How to ask for help" article, and "Checklist Item #11' entry in the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide. Sounds like your tutorial expects you to already understand that. (You might want to consider trying out other ones.) All that is needed is to have those two ESM files in that relative position to each other, and the ESPs somewhere below them. FYI: You have the "FalloutNV_lang.esp" file. That is only needed if you are running a "non-English" regional version of the game. If that is the case, it is information you need to include when asking for help. There are some difference with regional versions of the game. I recommend anyone read the entire "FNV General Mod Use Advice" article to understand the differences between this game and others you may have experience with; especially if this is your first attempt to play a modded FNV or it's been more than a year since you last did so. -Dubious- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyPhilip Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 Don't know where you have heard that about ESM files, but they DO always go at the top in Bethesda game (at least the older ones like FNV), and they do have a particular sequence they need to be placed in that order. ESP files are "modifications" to ESM files, so they have to load after; and again they often have a preferred sequence due to what are called "dependencies" upon other plugins (referred to as "master files") preceding them. With modded games its the sequence, not merely the list of mods, which is the cause of many problems. "LOOT"'s sort gives a good first approximation, correcting the most obvious issues and is sufficient for most players. You can make minor adjustments to the order and tell LOOT how to remember them. It's in the on-line documentation under "Metadata". Instructions on how to copy it's list for posting are in the "How to ask for help" article, and "Checklist Item #11' entry in the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide. Sounds like your tutorial expects you to already understand that. (You might want to consider trying out other ones.) All that is needed is to have those two ESM files in that relative position to each other, and the ESPs somewhere below them. FYI: You have the "FalloutNV_lang.esp" file. That is only needed if you are running a "non-English" regional version of the game. If that is the case, it is information you need to include when asking for help. There are some difference with regional versions of the game. I recommend anyone read the entire "FNV General Mod Use Advice" article to understand the differences between this game and others you may have experience with; especially if this is your first attempt to play a modded FNV or it's been more than a year since you last did so. -Dubious-Thank You sir Dubious for the reply. I did sort everything using LOOT. I posted it's end results. Anyway, I moved the esm plugins in the correct order. But you said that the ESPs should be somewhere below them. Is that like anywhere like top/ bottom priority doesn't matter? Does that cause any clipping or pink face issue? Because it happened right after I did LOOT. I wonder if there's a correct order for each mod categories. Like graphics mods come first, Companion and body mods come last or so? Or all that matter is how each mod's plugins are sorted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubiousintent Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Top/Bottom priority is exactly what "load order" is all about, so the answer is: Yes, it matters. However, not "categories" of mods so much. You can try to organize that way, but NOT at the expense of arguing with LOOT if insists on one particular plugin being placed before another. LOOT is examining "dependencies" in the file headers and you better have a superior detailed knowledge to argue with it. * "Compatibility patches" to make one mod work with another need to be placed after (as in "physically lower, higher numbered") in the "load order" than ALL of the plugins they are designed to make compatible. (This also applies to "fix" files.) ESMs should always be placed at the top (lowest numbered) positions in the "load order", followed by the related ESPs though they can be separated from their ESMs by other plugins. Getting the "load order" incorrect will cause "Missing Masters" errors as well. You can make minor adjustments to the order and tell LOOT how to remember them. It's in the on-line documentation under "Metadata". FYI: The "pre-order packs" (aka "POPs": Caravan, Classic, Mercenary, and Tribal; available now in the "Courier's Stash" addon), are not considered "true DLC expansions" by most mods and "compatibility patches" because they just add certain unique items. So their absence should not deter you from using "All DLC Merged" plugins. Where they are included, they should come after "GunrunnersArsenal.ESM" which is a true DLC expansion. When in doubt, follow the process in the wiki "Missing Masters" article to confirm they are not "master files" for that plugin.* Don't install compatibility patches for mods you do not have installed/active (e.g. get rid of any "TTW" patches if you aren't running TTW). * If you have more than one mod that makes any change to the same record or set of records in the vanilla game, then you really need to use a "Merge Patch File" with that collection of mods. Please see the 'Third Rule: The Rule of One' and 'Merge Patch File' sections of the wiki "FNV General Mod Use Advice" article. When in doubt, create a "Merge Patch" file anyway. Clipping or "pink face" are unrelated to "load order". They are due to mesh/texture combination problems. Suggest you read the 'Body Replacement Basics' section of the wiki "FNV General Mod Use Advice" article. That will give you an "overview" of what is involved. Then the more detailed 'Solutions to Graphics problems' and 'Solutions to Mesh (Red "!" icon) or Texture (solid color) problems' sections of the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" article. They will cover more specific general issues and their solutions. The 'Body Replacement Basics' section might appear more applicable, but not so much for combining FCO and FNVRS3, though it does link to a thread devoted to the subject. -Dubious- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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