[LE] New damage perk seems to cause stacking problem, wrong damage output

[Spartacus2211]

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Update 22.06.2019: PROBLEM SOLVED! See this post below:

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/7753268-new-damage-perk-seems-to-cause-stacking-problem-wrong-damage-output/&do=findComment&comment=71134313

 

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Hello dear community!

 

------------ Short Version ------------

 

I've created new perks, which add absolute damage bonus to weapons (Entry Point: 'Mod Attack Damage' , Function: 'Add Value'). They seem to work as intended, but when I play my char, which has these perks and take one of the armsman perks AFTER my new perks, the shown damage of the weapon in inventory drops, instead of rising and I have no idea why this happens.

------------ Long Version ------------

 

1. My questions:
Is the damage output affected by the order, in which perks have been taken ingame? Does a different order, in which perks are taken, lead to a different damage output?
If yes, how can I deal with that, to get correct damage output? Which edits do I have to make to my selfmade perks, so they don't mess up damage output?
If no, why does it seem to be so on my end?

2. Details:

2.1 prehistory of the prehistory --> self-made stuff working correct
Some weeks ago I created new ranks of the armsman-, barbarian- and overdraw-perks, each new rank doing additional 5% damage.
After chosing ingame my new perks, they messed up the damage output completly, they seem to double the damage, which was the actual damage with all applied bonuses from previous perks and gear. I solved this problem. The numbers and formulas were correct, but I didn't know before, that I need to add a condition to the new perks: The missing condition was to take away the perk, when the next rank of this perk was chosen ingame. (Window 'Perk Owner' / Condition Function: HasPerk <nextPerkRank> == 0 )
After adding this condition to my new perks, they seem to work correctly, as the vanilla perks do. Correct damage output ingame. So far, so good.

2.2 prehistory --> additional self-made stuff working (semi-?)correct
Now I've created new perks. I called them Mastery perks. They don't need previous perks, they can be chosen when a certain skill requirement is met. All that these Mastery perks do, is modifieing attack damage of certain weapon types. The function is "Add Value", not "Multiply Value", so they just add a fixed number of damage. I chose to do so, because my experience from the prehistory above showed me, that multipliers from different perks stack, which would lead to a similar outcome as before (inadequate damage output or the need of a hundred conditions like "different numbers, when player has different perks...")
I installed these perks and loaded a save, where I have a character, which has one-handed 103, Armsman rank 5 and enchanted gear with fortify one-handed.
The new perks can be selected ingame (position and display in perk-menu is correct) and in the beginning they seemed to work as intended. After taking the first mastery perk, the damage of the affected weapontype increased by the same number, which i wrote in the creation kit under "Add Value" before. After taking the second perk rank of this mastery, the affected weapontype again gained the correct amount of damage, as it was intended. Putting enchanted gear off and putting it on again, caused no inconsistencies.

2.3 problem --> stuff not working as intended
So I have a char with 103 one-handed, Armsman 5, enchanted gear and my new mastery perks (2 ranks).
Now I took the next rank of armsman, rank 6. This should give my char 5% damage bonus in one-handed.
As mentioned in the prehistory of the prehistory, the additional ranks of armsman, barbarian and overdraw work as intended (proven in older gameplays), so the additional 5% should be applied correctly to my char.
But instead of increasing the damage, rank 6 of armsman now decreased my chars damage.
Saving and reloading changed nothing.

2.4 numbers:
Sword has base damage of 14, tempered to exquisite quality

One-Handed Skill: 103 (or 104...) --> 50-something% damage bonus
5th rank of armsman: 100% damage bonus
7 pieces of gear with fortify one-handed by 20% --> 140% damage bonus from gear
2nd rank of sword mastery adds 40 damage with swords (Function: Add Value)
Seeker of Might: 10% damage bonus
--> Shown sword-damage ingame in the inventory: 243

after taking the 6th rank of armsman:

One-Handed Skill: 103 (or 104...) --> 50-something% damage bonus
6th rank of armsman: 105% damage bonus
7 pieces of gear with fortify one-handed by 20% --> 140% damage bonus from gear
2nd rank of sword mastery adds 40 damage with swords (Function: Add Value)
Seeker of Might: 10% damage bonus
--> Shown sword-damage ingame in the inventory: 207


3. Thoughts and conclusion
I checked the new ranks of armsman in the creation kit again, and everything seems to be fine there. I guess the problem is caused by the interaction of the newly added mastery perks and the armsman perks and I believe, that this has to do with the order, in which I took these perks. So I believe the damage output would be different, if I had chosen the perks in a different order, but I haven't tested this by now.

Possibly the solution to my problem will be simply a different 'Function' under 'Entry Point' in the 'Perk'-window of my newly created mastery perks, but I don't know which function I should take, and I don't want to try them all out.

Does anyone have an idea, how I can solve this problem (incorrect damage output)?

Edited June 22, 2019 by Spartacus2211

[npdogg]

This is because only one perk entry point of any given type can apply at once. In other words, multiple perk entry points of the same type will not stack. When you take another rank of Armsman, it is overriding your "Mastery" perk.

 

This is why entry points have priorities and conditions, so that you can control which perk applies and when.

[Spartacus2211]

Thank you npdogg!
So what could you recommend me to do, to get my additional damage perks working, except "just taking them, when your char already has all ranks of armsman"? Is there another way to get this working, so the order in which perks are taken won't matter?

By now it seems to me, the easiest idea would be the following: I make it so, that the Mastery perks can only be chosen, after the 5th rank of armsman is received. That way it seems to work already ingame.

 

What I don't understand: If only one entry point of the same type (e.g. 'Mod Attack Damage') can be applied, why is it, that the damage output is correct, when I take the 5 armsman perks before and my mastery perks after, but not the other way around? Why don't my mastery perks overwrite the first 5 ranks of armsman? I mean I had a damage output of 190- or 200-something, before I installed my new mastery perks, then I took my mastery perks and the applied damage stacked, as it was intended: a blunt number (1st rank: +20, 2nd rank: +40) was applied, seemingly without overwriting the additional damage from armsman perks.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Spartacus2211

[npdogg]

I'm not sure why it works one way and not the other, could be my understanding of the issue is incomplete. Addition conditions so that the player can't take those perks without getting Armsman Rank 5 would be the easiest fix, as you said.

[Spartacus2211]

SOLVED!

The problem was the 'Priority'.

Quote:
'Priority: Used to control order of operations when two perk entries affect the same value. Perks with a higher priority (higher number) take precedence.'
https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Perk

 

The Armsman, Barbarian etc. perks all have the priority 0. My new perks also had priority 0, which means, they confuse each other. In the last hour I tried various orders, how I took my perks (skill level 100, enchanted gear, .. same as above, only the order in which I took the perks was different every trial)

Result: Various numbers, no clear repetitive damage output

 

Solution: I set the Priority of my new perks to 1 instead of 0. Now it works as it should. Tried different orders of perk-taking ingame, always same damage output, order did not matter. --> Works!

 

I'm going to clean and improve my mod now and then I'm going to release it.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Spartacus2211

[npdogg]

Nice, glad you got it figured out.

[Spartacus2211]

Thanks.

 

Release: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/98293