I'm getting the weirdest missing mesh errors.. AGAIN!

[RemQ]

Hello everyone,

Lets start out with a little bit of frustration... This is the fourth time I've decided to start another playthrough of Fallout 3, and I've only managed to play the whole game ONCE, so far! Simply because I couldn't find a working solution anywhere.

But after three failed and abandoned attempts I thought I'd try asking for help (a) Sorry for the long post, just trying to post as much info as possible!

 

Here's the problem: Every time, after I've been running the game fine with a number of mods installed, I get the 'Big Red Exclamation Marks' when I install another mod.

It doesn't matter what kind of mod: Armors, weapons, companions, locations, quests, it will result in the Red Exclamation marks showing up. And not even replacing missing objects from that mod! Whenever I load my current game it will happen in the current, or when I enter a new, interior/exterior (mostly interiors though). Every now and again my character is able to walk a view feet or even miles, but after that I can't hear any footsteps or gunshots anymore, and random meshes/textures start missing and the Red Exclamation Marks show up again causing my game to freeze after a minute or two! When I open the console and select the missing mesh/mod it always (99% of the time) starts with 00, telling me that the Fallout3.esm is the cause. However, I can't disable that mod and I'm stumped how to fix this!

That said, some small miracles have occured where I was able to add a mod, which previously caused the above mentioned problem.

Maybe I have to empty some preloaded data or something, somewhere.. Or there are simply to many mods, or esm's and esp's installed and my computer is just saying: "No more... NOT gonna happen";

 

I AM running the game with tweaked ini files containing "tweaks" like:

- the Quad Core fix > bUseThreadedAI=1 & iNumHWThreads=2

- changed uInterior Cell Buffer=3 to uInterior Cell Buffer=6

and uExterior Cell Buffer=36 to uExterior Cell Buffer=72

- uGridsToLoad=7

- some extra multithreading capabilities

- tweaks under the [Grass] section

- and the approprate settings for using any ENB-config

But disabling these and playing with the default ini files resulted in the same problem!

 

The major mods/overhauls currently installed (and running fine) are:

- FWE - Fallout Wanderers Edition;

- MMM - Marts Mutant Mod;

- Fallout Redisigned aka Project Beauty;

- EVE - Energy Visuals Enhanced;

- WMK - Weapon Mod Kits;

- all the additional FOIP patches required to run the above;

NOTE: I installed (and played) the above mods using Gophers modding vids posted on the Nexus.

- RH Ironsights;

- Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch;

- IMCN;

- Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow;

- Xepha's Dynamic Weather;

- Xepha's Darkened Interiors;

- Midhrastic's ENB (although this doesn't add any textures, meshes, esp's, etc)

 

I always make a clean save in a Vanilla interior before activating a new mod.

I install all my mods using FOMM, unless the description and/or readme says manually or otherwise.

After installing/activating a new mod I toggle Archive Invalidation off and on under the 'Tools-tab' in FOMM, and I'm NOT using a second Archive Invalidation in my Fallout 3/data folder.

 

I'm running the game on Win 7 64bit, and installed FO3 under D:\Games\Fallout 3 (not program files).

Intel i5 3.3GHz, ATI 7870, 8GB RAM.

The game is patched to 1.7 and I'm not running steam.

I don't master update, and I currently have NO merged patch.

And not sure if it matters, but I'm also running 'FSR - Fallout Stutter Remover' and 'Large Address Aware Enabler'.

 

Any help or suggestions are much appreciated, as I would realy love to play this game without this constant recurring problem.

[prensa]

RemQ - Hello!

 

"I get the 'Big Red Exclamation Marks' when I install another mod"

 

Missing mesh symbol, assuming you've placed the meshes correctly, which it sounds like, then....

 

"Or there are simply to many mods, or esm's and esp's installed and my computer is just saying: "No more... NOT gonna happen";"

 

This is actually quite possible. :)

 

There is a limit of 254 plugins plus Fallout 3.esm.

 

After this point phantom drop outs of assets can occur, though I've also seen reports of this happening at 100 - 143 plus mods too (143 is 8f in HexaDecimal which the mod index numbers use).

 

If you're approaching a very large number like those then it could be this is your trouble.

 

The fact you mention some mods were affected at some times & fine when used later on would support this.

 

If this is the case, try to reduce your mod load, get rid of anything you don't need & think about combining simple small mods like ones that add in single items of clothing.

 

I combine all single clothing item mods into one to save slots.

 

This tool is very handy for combining those simple mods:

 

FO3 Plugin Utility by ScripterRon

 

http://fallout3.nexusmods.com/mods/5104

 

You can see a disscusion of the mod limit issue here:

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/137862-mod-limit/

 

Of particular note is daedricprime very concise post at the bottom of the page.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Prensa

[RemQ]

Thanks for the response Prensa,

 

I just found out that I have a total of 235 plugins of which 147 are active, so you're probably spot on with your diagnosis ;)

I was afraid it would be something like that, but never could find something similar explained anywhere, so thanks a lot for the links.

I'm going to try and combine some of the mods containing just a few items, and post my results once I get around to it.

Also think I'm gonna install some of the 'Paradox Ignition presents The Mergers' mods, and I guess delete a few mods if I want to stay under 120/150 plugins..

 

Two more questions though:

1) Do you know if the amount of (re)texture mods, without an esp plugin, is also vital to this problem? Because I have quite a lot of them installed as well!

2) Would it be better to install texture mods manually instead of with FOMM to shorten the Mod List (in FOMM's Package Manager)? Or should that not matter?

 

RemQ

[prensa]

RemQ - Hello!

 

"thanks a lot for the links"

 

Glad to help! :)

 

"I have a total of 235 plugins of which 147"

 

Does sound like that's the problem, 143 & above seems to be the most common problem number for people.

 

"1) Do you know if the amount of (re)texture mods, without an esp plugin, is also vital to this problem? Because I have quite a lot of them installed as well!"

 

Textures & mesh replacers that have no .esp/.esm's will have no affect on this limit issue.

 

Though they are mods, this issues is purely a problem with the number of plugins that the game can handle.

 

Now having said that, as this issue is still quite "fuzzy" & different people have it kick in at different numbers of plugins, it does make you wonder if the limit is connected to how many items are added in each plugin & that total amount when added together. But that's just a thought. :)

 

Lots of High-res textures will of course add to your computers workload running the game but that's entirely seperate & if you're game runs smooth with what you've got stick with it.

 

"2) Would it be better to install texture mods manually instead of with FOMM to shorten the Mod List (in FOMM's Package Manager)? Or should that not matter?"

 

FOMM's Package Manager is seperate from the game's data file list &, as far as is known, is not connected to the .esp/.esm number problem.

 

Manually installing is not going to help, in fact since you'd probably lose track of what you installed manually, it would probably just add confusion. :)

 

I've never heard of a limit problem in FOMM, so you're fine to keep using that for those texture replacers.

 

"I'm going to try and combine some of the mods containing just a few items"

 

That & the combined patches is your best course of action.

 

Single clothes additions or single weapon additions are good candidates for combination.

 

Avoid combining complex mods though.

 

Also consider each mod in use, do you really need it etc..

 

Hope this helps!

 

Prensa

[RemQ]

Thanks again for your fast and detailed response Prensa.

I realy appreciate this! :)

 

I just combined 6 armors, and some mod's 5 compatibility patches, using the FO3plugin. And they actualy worked.. I'm unable to get the smile of my face right now :P

I'm not seeing any more Red Exclamation Marks anymore (at the moment) so this was most likely my main issue.

 

Next stop is reading the FO3edit Manual, which freddy_farnsworth recommended, since I need to learn to spot conflicts in order to combine the right plugins. Otherwise I'll probably break my game again!

Probably is going to take me quite a while, but once I'm finally there it's a fresh install of FO3 and hope it will work then :)

 

Gave you a kudos! Thanks!!

 

RemQ

[SpitBlock]

Oh geez, GaryBash/WyreBash will merge some of those mods when you created a bashed patch. It's mostly automated.

[prensa]

RemQ - Hello!

 

"Thanks again for your fast and detailed response Prensa."

 

Happy to have helped! :)

 

"I just combined 6 armors, and some mod's 5 compatibility patches, using the FO3plugin. And they actualy worked.. I'm unable to get the smile of my face right now"

 

Great! It's a very handy tool, particularly suited to that task.

 

It is satisfying when tweaking goes right. :)

 

"Gave you a kudos!"

 

Thank-You Kindly!

 

Prensa

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

SpitBlock - Hello!

 

"Oh geez, GaryBash/WyreBash will merge some of those mods when you created a bashed patch. It's mostly automated. "

 

You know, I've never used GaryBash. I've always got on fine with FO3Edit.

 

I know many love GaryBash/WyreBash though.

 

Prensa

[SpitBlock]

Unless you are creating mods then you should use FO3 edit only to clean mods. Then use Bashed patches because MergePatch requires human action based on the results it produces. It needs someone that knows what they are doing to post edit the patch thinking about how that will effect the game. To do that you need to understand what each type of data in the game does an how it works. If it was me I'd go bashed just to avoid the trouble an extra work. Plus it's the standard on Skyrim. If you want to keep going with the argument Merge Patches will also cause errors on some load orders. New Vegas is more forgiving than FO3, but it still doesn't change the extra amount of work you have to do to use it. Then the fact that you have not tried both yet. :/ What if you loved bash, an missed out on it.

[RemQ]

Hello SpitBlock,

 

I might be missing the relevance of your input on the subject :P but we were talking about using FO3Plugin to merge some (simple) armor- and weapon mods to decrease the amount of plugins (esp's) I'm currently using.

I had 147 plugins active and this seemed to cause random meshes to vanish and cause a lot of the famous Red Exclamation Marks to pop up (and even crash my game).

Reducing my number of plugins (and getting my Mod index under 90) fixed this.

 

Still, thanks for your input and joining this thread :)

I'm not using merged patches for the exact reason you just mentioned, and I'm unfamiliar with bashed patches. Learning how to read and safely edit anything with FO3Edit is first on my "to do list" :)

 

RemQ

[SpitBlock]

Yes I know, what I'm saying is that Bashed Patch does that automaticly an by better rules than the utility application run by a bunch of people that don't create mods. You are either a modder are you are not, and if you are not then you shouldn't be using the utility. Plain an simple. It's not dangerous perse, but you can break mods doing that, along with not actually knowing what is in the mod that your are putting together. One of the reasons why is because as a new modder you have a tendency to change things that are not directly related to your mod because it got on your nerves. Then the players download it an also download another mod to do the same thing the person shouldn't have been messing with in the first place. It's a real mix an match of communication failure. If you are okay with investing 200 hours into something then you should avoid things that will end that permanently before you are finished with what you started, because it will be too late to do anything about it then.

 

 

 

*edit* You know if you spend enough time making weapons for this game you will accidently play a weapon fire sound with your volume turned up. Makes me jump up out of my seat every time. Whoops I shot my foot again, Son of a...

Edited September 27, 2012 by SpitBlock