[LE] Best way to create custom armor meshes

[Quibblonian101]

I want to create a couple sets of custom armor and I'm pretty new to how it works. I have blender and have some knowledge on 3D modeling and can probably figure that part out myself. What I'm not sure about is what to sculpt the armor around as reference. I have an idea that you need to convert a body nif into an obj using nifskope and then import that into blender and work off of that, but I'm not sure where to find the best models or right nif files. I tried loading in some nif files like femalebody_1.nif and hands.nif etc. But is there no full model or full body to work off of? Also I couldn't find all the male body parts, only the body and feet.

 

And I think bodyslide comes into the mix somewhere. If anyone knows I would be great full.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Quibblonian101

[Pineappletree]

I don't know the blender side of things, as I come form the 3dsmax world, but I've got a fair bit of experience in creating new amor meshes and getting them into the game, so I can give you some basic directions at least.

 

If you want to create new armor meshes it's important you understand the game's systems for managing and displaying equippable items.

 

The BipedSlot (or BipedObject) system is key here as it explains why there is no complete body model. (Basically, a mesh that gets equipped into one of these slots completely replaces the mesh that's already there and that includes body parts. If you equip a pair of gloves the mesh isn't layerd atound the hands but replaces them completely. And because you don't want the glove mesh to also replace the body and feet, the body is cut into several pieces which can all change independently from each other.)

You might also want to take a look at how the body weight slider in Skyrim works (which is the reason why there are "_0" and "_1" versions of most body and armor meshes) if you don't know this already.

 

if you have trouble finding the right information or have further questions, feel free to ask.

 

Now to your specific questions above:

 

How do you get a complete body into blender to model your new meshes around?

Simple, you just have to import all the indiviudal meshes of the body (body, head, hands, feet and if you want your base character to look a bit more firendly maybe also a hair mesh) into a single scene. Once they're there I'd also recommend finding a way to quickly hide / show these individual parts depending on you what you need at any given moment. In 3dsmax I use "layers" for this, I don't know what blender provides in this regard.

 

If you want to weight (or "skin" or whatever term you want to use) your meshes in blender as well you'll also want to bring a skeleton into the scene.

I'd recommend using the modded XP32 skeleton for this as it provides a lot of extra bones used in many mods. Even if you don't yet plan on making use of these extra bones, it's much easier to spare the hard disk and RAM space it takes to always have them in the scene at your convenience than trying to cram them in later when you run the risk of messing up the weighted meshes already in the scene.

 

Whatever you do, once you have your base scene set up make sure to save it as a separate file so you can always quickly come back to a clean slate when you need it.

 

What files do you need to import?

For the male body the files you are looking for are:

malebody_X.nif

malehands_X.nif

malefeet_X.nif

malehead.nif

skeleton.nif

 

For the female body you want:

femalebody_X.nif

femalehands_X.nif

femalefeet_X.nif

femalehead_X.nif

skeleton_female.nif

 

The "_X" here stands for the "_0" or "_1" suffixes designating which weight version of the model is inside. Whether you want to use the "heavy" or the "light" body as your base comes down to your personall preference, you'll have to create the "opposite" version anyway. Personally I find it easier to "grow" a mesh outward, so I always used the smaller "_0" body as the base.

If you want to save yourself time you can ignore the body weight slider and just use the same mesh for both the "_0" and "_1" version of the model but obviously that might look odd.

Or you let Bodyslide do the work (my prefered method nowadays) which I'll discuss below.

 

Whatever approach you choose, make sure all imodels you import are of the same weight.

 

Where do you find those files?

This is a bit of a tricky question because it depends on what body mod you want to use and whether you already have it installed (and where).

 

The default folder for all but one of these files is: ...\Skyrim\Data\Meshes\Actor\Character\Character Assets\

The female skeleton is the exception here, you'll find it in ...\Skyrim\Data\Meshes\Actor\Character\Character Assets Female\

 

You have to keep in mind however, that the unmodded base game doesn't come with loose files and folders but has all of these packed into big *.bsa archives. So any loose files you find in your game's folder are most probably mods you installed yourself (because the game will use the loose files before it goes looking for them in the *.bsa archives). If you want the vanilla bodies provided with the game you'll find them in the archive ...\Skyrim\Data\Skyrim - Meshes.bsa. Or if you want to use a certain modded body the easiest approach might be to just import them right from whatever archive you downloaded them in.

 

What body do you best use as base?

This comes down to personal preference and the intended audience, should you plan to release your armor addon to the public. Typical questions you should ask yourself are:

 

Do you want to create armors for males or females or both? There are a lot more body mods for females than for males ( figures :laugh: )

Do you want to create bulky plate armors wrapping the character from head to toe or do you want to create bikinis? For a bikini the choice of base body is much more critical as any changes to the body's shape are that much more noticable (not to mention because of the BipedSlot system you will have to include large parts of the base body mesh in the bikini armor's mesh file).

Do you want maximal compatibliity, so many people can use the armor, or are you ok with creating something for a niche audience? Many people use the (U)UNP body, few use the Ladybody (is that ever around anymore? I don't know)

 

And most important of all: What body mods do you already use yourself?

Sooner or later you will have to test your armor meshes in the game and that won't be much fun if you have to install body meshes and textures you don't usually use every time you want to test.

 

How does Bodyslide come into play if at all?

I'll assume you know what Bodyslide does for the user but it's also useful for us modders.

For one it's fairly popular, so using one of the Bodyslide bodies (CBBE or UUNP) will probably provide you with a decent size user base for your armor mod.

It also provides tools you can use to weight / skin meshes, but I can't say much about them since I'm more comfortable with doing this in max.

 

The big reason to go the Bodyslide route as an armor creator is imho that you don't have to create the two different weight versions of all your meshes anymore. You simply create a single mesh based on one of the Bodyslide base bodies and then the program will generate both the "_0" and "_1" versions of the model automatically based on the user's chosen body shape.

 

This approach requires an extra step in that you have to tell Bodyslide how to manipulate your new mesh when the shape sliders are used. But since Bodyslide comes with the tools for this (in another program called OutfitStudio) and can automate a big part of the process, I generally find it a lot less hassle than having to create two different weight meshes in my 3d program by myself.

It's actually one main reason why I moved with all my female characters and armors to UUNP / Bodyslide a couple of years ago and am building new meshes for the UUNP base body exclusively now. It's an extra step and an extra program to learn (and if the automation doesn't produce good results it's quie a bit of work to fix them) but overall I can only heartily recommend it.

 

In conclusion

I hope I was able to anwer your questions and didn't dump too much redundant or confusing information on you. Creating armors from scratch is not a trivial process but a satisfying one.

 

Again, if you have further about anything (non blender specifc) just ask.

Good luck and have fun!

Edited September 13, 2019 by Pineappletree

[Quibblonian101]

Thanks for the detailed response!

 

For me there is no \Character Assets Female\ in my folders. It ends at character and facegendata, so I had to look for nif files in the body mods I have like I think you mentioned.

I want to create two separate armors. One male and one female; however the female one is of higher priority because I want to create a follower mod with custom armor, weapons, animations, and scripts. I've already created the follower and just recently finished modeling one of the weapons and now am moving onto the armor. I typically prefer to use UUNP and that's what I'll be looking for. So from what you've said:

 

Get all the .nif files into the scene: - I've done all of that except for the skeleton. So I would just import the skeleton_female.nif from XP32 with the rest? I don't know how the animations work in blender so I'll have to figure that out I guess.

 

The base will be UUNP and It's not a very bulky armor or body type so probably just UNP high.

 

Bodyslide: You said It's better to let bodyslide do the work and it will generate the versions. But I'm not sure when to use it. Do I create my outfit in blender and then import it into bodyslide and then generate the second version? Or do you actually use bodyslide to create the armor and versions?

 

And what would you say is the best way to actually model armor? I have watched many different tutorials and some people use a cloth modifier that has physics involved. Some use sculpt and completely sculpt armor from scratch. Or others start off with squares and reshape them and add things. But I want to know what the proper way to do it is from someone experienced in armor modeling. I would hate to spend hours trying to do it one way and for there to be and easier or more efficient way of doing it. I have some experience in weapon modeling but have never done clothing before so this is something more intermediate for me but I'm hoping after this project I'll have a better understanding.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Quibblonian101

[maxarturo]

Wow Pineappletree you really took the time to explain and guide here.

May i suggest that you create a PDF tutorial that other modders can download and follow the steps (if you have the time of course, cause i don't).

:thumbsup:

[Pineappletree]

Thanks for the detailed response!

You're welcome!

 

Concerning skeletons:

Since you mentioned "animations" I feel I have to make something clear (at the risk of repeating what maybe you already know):

 

The process of creating new armor has nothing to do with animations. Animations, in Skyrim, have a special file type and their purpose is to tell the game how to move an actor's skeleton. The skeleton then dictates the movement of the meshes attached to it.

So what you're actually concered with is giving your armor mesh this informaton of how to deform when relevant parts of the skeleton beneath it are moving. This process is called "weighting" or "skinning" (or another dozen terms).

 

Now it's difficult for me to give you more specific information about this, as I have no idea how Blender and it's NIF-import/export tools handle this weight information.

However it works though, if you want to weight your armor in Blender, you'll need a skeleton in the scene to work with. And as per my recommendation that would, indeed, be skeleton_female.nif from the XP32 mod.

 

(There is one alternative to this in that you can actually use tools BodySlide provides to do the weighting. In that case you wouldn't have to have a skeleton in your Blender scene.

I can't tell you how and how well Bodyslide works for this however, since I do all of this in 3dsmax.)

 

Concerning BodySlide

BodySlide comes into play at the very end of the armor creation process. You create your armor mesh in Blender, you create your texture UVs for the mesh (probably also in Blender), you weight the mesh (and here's, as I said, the one exception where you might want to use BodySlide early).

Then, as you're new to the whole process, I recommend you get your armor into the game and test it extensively (by using the same mesh for both the "_0" and the "_1" body weight).

And only when you're satisfied with the meshes you have, then you get them into BodySlide and generate the files BodySlide needs to conform your armor to different body shapes and weights.

 

(And just to be sure I'll add that this obviously only works for your female / UUNP armor, as there are no male BodySlide bodies atm)

 

Concerning UUNP

Something else I have to make clear, since you talked about using "UNP high" as a base:

 

You do NOT want to model your armor around any body shape generated by BodySlide as that'll get you into all kinds of trouble (odd looking shapes, mesh collisions, etc)

You DO want to model around the very body meshes BodySlide uses to generate those shapes in the first place.

 

You can find the relevant NIFs in .../Skyrim/Data/Caliente Tools/BodySlide/ShapeData/Unified UNP/

(on a mac currently, no backslash on my keyboard)

 

Concerning modeling techniques

The proper way to model armor is the one that works for you.

 

Unsatisfying answer but maybe the best one I can give.

 

As you've seen there are many ways to get to the desired destination and all have their advantages and disadvantages, depending on the circumstances.

3d sculpting, for example, is great for creating organic and / or irregular shapes, but making a (relatively) low poly mesh fit for a game out of a sculpt is not a trivial task most of the time.

 

The concrete situation is this: You are a beginner in the modeling game and you want to create meshes for use in Skyrim. Which means they have to fit certain criteria (most importantly poly count).

So my recommendation is: Forget about complex tools like 3d sculpts and cloth simulations for the moment and start by learning to do the basics properly, namely good ol' poly-modeling.

 

That's the process where you take a basic geometric shape (or the simple "square" you mentioned) and manipulate it directly on polygon level to get to the shape you want.

 

It's probably the most common 3d modeling technique, so you'll find a lot of information about it.

It's sometimes laborious but extremely versatile.

It gives you good control over your polygon count.

 

And most important of all, it's the base everything else build upon. If you learn how to poly-model properly, if you learn how to make complex shapes out of quads (that's the term for four sides polygons, which you want to make your model out of primarly), if you learn what good mesh topology is (another term that describes certain qualities of your mesh, whether the polygons are evenly spaced, how your polygons flow" around the shape you create, etc.), then you'll understand how other tools and techniques fit into the puzzle and when it might benefit you to learn and use them. Experience is key in this.

 

And if you want to know what I use: Yup, it's poly-modeling, I take that one square, in some cases a cylinder or torus, and cut, push and pull it into the shape I need. I model one side of my armor (left trouser leg, left shoe, etc.) then mirror it to the other side to save time. And only in the end, when the whole mesh is finished, I very seldomly use 3d sculpting to enhance the model further. Most of the time though, I only use it to create or enhance my normal maps (which is an entire topic in itself).

 

So don't worry too much about not going the most efficient route possible atm, don't worry about having to scrap a mesh, as it's still experience you've got under your belt.

Learn, experiment, have fun and you'll find what's the best way for you automatically!

 

 

 

 

Wow Pineappletree you really took the time to explain and guide here.

May i suggest that you create a PDF tutorial that other modders can download and follow the steps (if you have the time of course, cause i don't).

:thumbsup:

 

Not a bad idea, though I'm unsure I'd want to go the step by step route (at least not in the "click this then click that then throw your mouse against the wall" kind of way).

I'd want people to learn the concepts that allow them to find their way themselves instead of just following the exact footsteps I lay down for them.

 

In any case, time is indeed the deciding factor here. But I'll think about it.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Pineappletree

[maxarturo]

Pineappletree

 

No need for "click this then click that ", but what you have actually done here, but with pictures (just to make it look more like a tutorial, plus one image is a thousand words). Doing a tutorial for complete beginners is kind of too much to ask from anyone, especially for this kind of stuff.

[Quibblonian101]

Ok so I exported a nif from bodyslide and already started modeling off of that. And your saying I definitely should not do that? :sweat:

 

So the model I want to actually use has to be the "zeroed" slider for UUNP?

 

Also I noticed that when importing the nif I was using, its body was fully solid; wheras when I imported an outfit nif to look at how they did it, the armor was attached to the body and around the outift was transparent and weird looking. Is this important?

 

 

edit: I found the .nif for the bodyslide I want like you said Skyrim/Data/Caliente Tools/BodySlide/ShapeData/Unified UNP/ But the files are .bsd, how would I convert that to a nif?

Edited September 17, 2019 by Quibblonian101

[Pineappletree]

So the model I want to actually use has to be the "zeroed" slider for UUNP?

Exactly! You model around the completely "neutral" body shape, then use Bodyslide to generate the deformation information that, for example, shapes the "UNP high" body.

 

Scroll to the very bottom bottom of the \ShapeData\Unified UNP\ folder, there you'll find a handful of NIFs for body, hands and feet.

You can't use any of the BSDs as they are no 3d models at all. They're the files that tell Bodyslide how to move the polygons of the base body (inside those NIFs I specified) when you move its various sliders.

 

Which one of the NIF sets in that folder you want to use doesn't make too much of a difference at this stage as the actual body shape is the same for all three.

UUNPHDT and UUNPSpecial just have some additional features that become only relevant when you start weighting your armor meshes ("HDT" uses some of XP32's extra bones for "bouncy" breasts, etc, "Special" adds more detailed genitals on top for those that use Skyrim as aporn simulator.)

 

And about those transparent imported models: Extremely difficult to diagnose from afar, as I - agian - don't know the import / export procedures for Blender, how it handles the meshes, how its UI works...

Can't say much about it.

[Quibblonian101]

I've made a lot of good progress but started to realize that I have no clue how to actually get the mesh in-game and skin\weight the model for skyrim. I figured that before I make any more progress on my model I should get what I have so far into the game and test it out.

 

So anyone know how exactly to skin meshes in blender or how to get the nif in game? I imported the skeleton from XP32 into my scene but there are no bones visible and I'm not sure what to do

 

most tutorials I find are using older versions of blender or are creating the bones as "armatures" from scratch. But theres nothing on importing bones from nif files.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Quibblonian101