Returning to Mods and Feeling Super Lost, Please Help!

[EldritchEquations]

Hi there, long time modding fan since 2012. First time posting here as well so if I get some etiquette wrong, I apologize.

 

I took a break from the community for most of 2018 and am just returning now. A lot has changed! I haven't run into any problems with Fallout 4, but there's so much that's different about FO3/NV/Oldrim that I'm not sure what's accurate. I've been reading everything that I can so I know what I'm doing, but much of it is contradictory. Any insights would be helpful, even links to guides! I'm not averse to reading my way out of a problem.

Anyway, let me get right to my current problem-- LOOT doesn't seem to be sorting NV. There's mods I'm looking at that I know for a fact are in the wrong place, but it won't move them. LOOT is in administrator mode, and it sorts Fallout 4 just fine. Steam and LOOT are both directly on C drive. New Vegas is up to date. I'm using NMM v0.70.8.0 from the GitHub site.

 

I've been told that Vortex or MO2 are better, but I tried my hand at Vortex for SSE and feel that I should spend more time watching videos and reading guides before switching over. I just don't feel like I understand it well. The same goes for MO2, but with the added disadvantage that I've heard a few sporadic reports that it's "garbage", which I take with a grain of salt because when I did attempt using it, I felt like it was a capable system that I was just too ignorant to use correctly. If NMM is the problem here, I suppose this loadout will have to wait until I'm a bit more familiar with another organizer, but I'm hoping not.

I'll post my loadout below, as per LOOT's sorting:

 

0 0 FalloutNV.esm
1 1 DeadMoney.esm
2 2 HonestHearts.esm
3 3 OldWorldBlues.esm
4 4 LonesomeRoad.esm
5 5 GunRunnersArsenal.esm
6 6 ClassicPack.esm
7 7 MercenaryPack.esm
8 8 TribalPack.esm
9 9 CaravanPack.esm
10 a YUP - Base Game + All DLC.esm
11 b FreesideOpen.esm
12 c Sortomatic.esm
13 d SomeguySeries.esm
14 e Detect Traps.esm
15 f Advanced Recon Tech.esm
16 10 NVInteriors_Core.esm
17 11 New Vegas Redesigned 3.esm
18 12 FCOMaster.esm
19 13 AWorldOfPain(Preview).esm
20 14 NVInteriors_ComboEdition.esm
21 15 Gomorrah Redesigned v2.esp
22 16 The New Bison Steve Hotel.esm
23 17 AWOPDeadMoney.esm
24 18 Bitter Springs Redesigned.esp
25 19 Uncut Road to Legate's Camp.esm
26 1a Freeside Open - AWOP.esm
27 1b Project Nevada - Core.esm
28 1c Project Nevada - Equipment.esm
29 1d Project Nevada - Rebalance.esp
30 1e Project Nevada - Cyberware.esp
31 1f Project Nevada - Extra Options.esm
32 20 Caliber.esm
33 21 CaliberXgunrunners.esm
34 22 CaliberXhonesthearts.esm
35 23 Sortomatic-AWOP.esm
36 24 YUP - NPC Fixes (Base Game + All DLC).esp
37 25 The Mod Configuration Menu.esp
38 26 Project Nevada - Rebalance Complete.esp
39 27 New Vegas Redesigned 3.esp
40 28 NVInteriors Addon.esp
41 29 NVInteriors Addon FO.esp
42 2a Project Nevada - All DLC.esp
43 2b NVInteriors_Rewritten.esp
44 2c FCO - NPC Changes.esp
45 2d Uncut Extra Collection FSO.esp
46 2e outsidebets.esp
47 2f FreesideOpenPatch.esp
48 30 Uncut Wasteland FSO OB.esp
49 31 FCO - The Last Few Edits - Complete.esp
50 32 Project Nevada - Gun Runners' Arsenal.esp
51 33 EVE FNV - ALL DLC.esp
52 34 AWOPCaliberXAmmoPatch.esp
53 35 WeaponModsExpanded.esp
54 36 AWOPMonsterPatchVanilla.esp
55 37 FLVJOD-Freeside OPEN.esp
56 38 1nivVSLArmors.esp
57 39 WMX-DLCMerged.esp
58 3a WMX-EVE-AllDLCMerged.esp
59 3b AWOP-WMX-EVE AllDLCMerged.esp
60 3c Project Nevada - WMX.esp
61 3d YUP-WMX-PN-PNEO Patch.esp
62 3e Unofficial Patch Plus.esp
63 3f Unofficial Patch Plus - Companion Suite (No Carry Reduction).esp
64 40 Unofficial Patch Plus - Companion Suite (No Damage Nerf).esp
65 41 Unofficial Patch Plus - Companion Suite (Vanilla Effects).esp
66 42 Unofficial Patch Plus - Custom Companion Suite Template - Copy.esp
67 43 188improved.esp
68 44 The New Bison Steve Hotel.esp
69 45 kochandbohr.esp
70 46 AWOPDeadMoneyVendorPatch.esp
71 47 Uncut Cottonwood Cove Shack.esp
72 48 AWOP Revs - You Are Still The Hero.esp
73 49 NewVegasBounties.esp
74 4a Russell.esp
75 4b AWOP - Russell.esp
76 4c Delay DLC - DM + HH + OWB + LR + GRA.esp
77 4d athornysituation.esp
78 4e awilderwasteland.esp
79 4f NewVegasBountiesFSOPatch.esp
80 50 NVInteriors - FLVJOD Freeside Patch.esp
81 51 FSOmusic.esp
82 52 Uncut Greenhouses.esp
83 53 Freeside Open - Russell.esp
84 54 JIP Companions Command & Control.esp
85 55 JIP Improved Recipe Menu.esp
86 56 The Weapon Mod Menu.esp
87 57 Project Nevada - Cyberware Additions.esp
88 58 Vanilla UI Plus.esp
89 59 Detect Traps - Traponator 4000.esp
90 5a Detect Traps - Perk.esp
91 5b Detect Traps - DLC.esp
92 5c Advanced Recon Tech.esp
93 5d Advanced Recon Gear.esp
94 5e Advanced Recon Gear-Locations Doc Mitchell.esp
95 5f Advanced Recon Gear - Project Nevada.esp
Project Nevada - Lonesome Road.esp
96 60 Advanced Recon Patches.esp
97 61 Advanced Recon Tech - Detect Traps.esp
98 62 CASM with MCM.esp
99 63 Further3rdPersonCamera.esp
100 64 NevadaSkies.esp
101 65 Mojave Nights.esp
102 66 Ragdolls.esp
103 67 DeadMoneyFemaleTuxedo.esp
104 68 FCO - The New Bison Steve.esp
105 69 FCO - OHSB NPC Edits.esp
106 6a FCO - Russell.esp
107 6b FCO - Race Addon.esp
108 6c New Vegas Redesigned 3 Path Fixing.esp
109 6d FCO - PathFixing Vanilla.esp
110 6e Roberts_NewVegas.esp
111 6f FCO - Roberts Patch.esp
112 70 AWOP Revs - Scaled Goodsprings Fight.esp
113 71 AWOP Revs - Help In Goodsprings.esp
114 72 CAGE 1.9.3.2.esp
115 73 Distributed Necklaces and Chains.esp
116 74 Holster Gear.esp
117 75 1nivPNSLPatch.esp
118 76 YUP-Spice of Life Patch.esp
Project Nevada - Dead Money.esp
Project Nevada - Honest Hearts.esp
Project Nevada - Old World Blues.esp
119 77 Unofficial Patch Plus - Project Nevada Patch.esp
120 78 Unofficial Patch Plus - Addendum.esp
121 79 WMX-POPMerged.esp
122 7a Project Nevada - EVE All DLC.esp
123 7b AWOP-NVR3.esp

 

A few last notes with some general questions:

 

I'm aware that LOOT is telling me I have extraneous versions of Project Nevada installed, but I'm not quite sure how that happened. Previously, before my break, I had always modded FO3 and NV using FOMM. Besides the normal troubleshooting, I had very little problems. However, I thought I had correctly installed only one instance of Project Nevada, but NMM seems to have given me the entire package and only allows me to uncheck a specific plugin. With FOMM, IIRC you had to specifically choose which plugins to include. Obviously I've done something wrong, but short of starting over, I'm not sure how to find that error.

 

I choose which mods I want ahead of time and put them in a list, read their description pages and usually the first page or two of comments, arrange them in small groups of 3-4 as per the order I want to install them, then I slowly install and check the game with a "Dummy" new game to see if everything looks OK. Is there a better or faster method that I'm missing?

 

This method used to work great for me, especially with keeping patches straight, but with this current loadout of NV, I'm finding a lot of conflicting patches. As an example, ModA has a patch for ModA+ModB, but ModB also has a patch for ModB+ModA. Sometimes I will also find a ModC which claims its entire purpose is to correctly bridge the gap between ModA and ModB, and that all other patches are deprecated. I try to make my decisions based on which mod seems to be the most up to date, the reception/reactions in the comments, and the number of endorsements. Is there no better way? Is it truly just trial and error, and keeping in mind or to text past experiences of what worked?

Specifically, with this last bunch, I've had FCO, FNVR, Robert's, and Type3 working nicely together in previous games. I checked the versions against the guide I use, followed a pretty familiar set-up process, then found a completely contradictory method from the FNVR creator. I saved it to try next. I think I'll need it though, because when I did the in-game check, there's some odd things about my male PC's body. For instance, there's nipples on his knees, the contour of a ribcage on his back, and a black bar where chest hair should be. I unclicked a few things, moved some things around as per the guide, but there's no change. I COC'd about the world a bit, and everyone else looks fine, but I also can't see under the males' clothes, so I can't say for sure that there bodies also aren't effed. On this, I'm clueless. What's your experience? Are FCO and FNVR completely incompatible? Should I use the up to date versions, or the old versions, as there are guides that respectively recommend both? Is there a looks overhaul mod for both genders that is less complicated? Is Robert's the problem? On a scale of 1 to 10, how stupid do I sound?

Anyway, lastly, I have about 25 more I plan to add to this loadout. However, I've always operated by a rule of trying to stay under 120, but I've heard recently (and found with FO4) that this rule no longer seems to apply, or else I was following erroneous advice the entire time. Either way, am I asking for too much? Is there a set number of plugins I should absolutely be under, full stop?

Thanks for any time or advice, it will all be appreciated.

[dubiousintent]

I recommend anyone read the entire "FNV General Mod Use Advice" article to understand the differences between this game and others you may have experience with; especially if this is your first attempt to play a modded FNV or it's been more than a year since you last did so. We have pulled together a lot of information from various sources into the Nexus Wiki for this game over the last 5 years.

You need to break your problems down into separate issues and solve them one at a time. All of the following may not apply to your specific situation, but are worth repeating anyway.

You don't say, so I am assuming you installed FNV to the default location ("C:\Program Files(x86)"). That is the first thing to correct.

 

Please see the wiki "Installing Games on Windows Vista+" article for why the original default Steam behavior of installing games to the "C:\Program Files" or "C:\Program Files(x86)" folder tree was bad (they learned better, and don't do that any more); and why "disabling UAC and running as Administrator" is NOT sufficient, with instructions how to move it. This is the single most important thing you can do to fix and protect yourself against problems in the future. As much of a PITA as that is, it's never going to be any easier than now. System updates often cause issues with games installed to these folder trees. With the game moved out of the default location you will not need to be running it as an "Administrator Account", which is safer. Please see the 'Restoring to "Vanilla"' section of the wiki "FNV General Mod Use Advice" article as well.

Disabling "User Account Control" (UAC) only stops Windows from prompting you to grant "administrative" credentials to an application that the system says must have a "UAC elevation". Disabling UAC does not automatically then enable the permission for such applications. Instead, (for all intents and purposes) it automatically denies them. (Please read this MS article on how it works in Win10. The basics have been there since the inception of UAC with Vista.)

 

This default location is the most likely suspect for why you can't sort using LOOT (at the moment). That needs to be the next thing you fix. If you did move Steam out of the default location, then likely any access privilege problem is one of "File and Folder permissions" on the parent "root" folder under which you installed the games. If this is not set correctly to allow at least "System", "Administrators", and "Users" to have "Full Control" then you can't overwrite other files or make changes. You then need to enable the "Properties | Security | Advanced | Change Permissions" setting of the parent folder to enable the box: "Replace all child object permissions with inheritable permissions from this object", so those changes get applied to the existing files and sub-folders.

As you are familiar with FOMM, I see no reason you can't continue to use it (assuming you are using the "Forked" version). If you do want to move on to another "newer" manager then you really need to take the time to learn how to use it properly by reading their docs. (There are plenty of people using all of them; even NMM. I personally use a "Wrye Flash"/"Wrye Bash" combination along with the occasional FOMM mod.) Please see the links in the 'Mod Managers' section of the wiki "FNV General Mod Use Advice" article.

 

Mixing mod managers can cause confusion. (Using multiple managers implementation of "ArchiveInvalidation" is actually contra-productive.) Sometimes it has to be done, but only when there is no other choice. Try to stick with one; they won't know about mods installed with another manager. As for your PN optional files problem, suggest you uninstall or otherwise remove then all and then reinstall using just one manager. As you are using the "All DLC" file, there is no need for the individual DLC files. If they are getting installed anyway, then it is a problem with the "wizard script" being used. You may need to uninstall again and manually install files individually.

 

Your install method of a couple of mods followed by testing is the only method I recommend to get a stable game. Attempts to speed things up when installing almost always results in wasted time because you have no idea which mods are having conflicts and lose any time gains trying to isolate the conflicts. Slow and steady, testing every step of the way is actually shorter in the long run.

 

Case in point: your "body replacement" mods. Updated versions often require changes to their install instructions and interactions that make older previously successful methods and guides fail. Distorted bodies usually indicate the need for an updated "skeleton" mod which may not be included in a particulr mod, or require a "bone" that is not present in the skeleton provided by another mod. The "Rule of One" can cause the last installed mod to break the previous ones skeleton. "Black bands" indicate the use of an incompatible texture with a different UV Mapping. Please see the 'Issue: Body Replacer - Custom Body Types' and related 'Body Replacer -' entries of the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" article to review the potential issues.

 

FCO and FNVR can work together, but they cause the most installation headaches for people. The extensive FCO "comments" forum thread on the subject has the answers to pretty much every conceivable question. Use the forum "this topic" search function.

 

The "active plugin cap" for FNV is still somewhere between 128-140 (depending upon mod mix and hardware). (FO4 uses the same "Creation Engine" as SkyrimSE; not the Gamebryo engine of FO3/FNV. Big differences.) Once you get close to 128 you should definitely check after each added plugin for problems.

 

* Move any "inactive/disabled" plugins out of the game "Data" folder. They count against the "plugin cap" because they get loaded by the game engine if found, and can cause "Missing Master" problems. Please see the wiki "Missing Masters" article if you get that error message.

-Dubious-