Arcalane Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) Yes, the Soldier line defines the XCOM troop abilities/properties/values, in the block just after the armour settings and just prior to the weapon/item settings. It should be line 16 if you care to count them, or if your text editor of choice displays line count. Shame the various ammo settings/capacities aren't defined in DefaultGameCore that I can see. Guess it's just more incentive to get the ammo capacity upgrade as soon as possible. Idle thoughts on balance for anyone thinking of adding this to a mod; since reaction range and normal range are seperate values, it should be possible to set them differently - for instance, a shotgun could be set to only reactfire if an enemy moves within four or five tiles, whereas an assault rifle could be set to reactfire if an enemy moves within eight or nine. It'd also help cut down on ammo wastage, since long-range reaction fire shots may be quite unlikely to hit. Especially with rookies involved. Edited October 21, 2012 by Arcalane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbar Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 [it's not a "potential" game breaker. The game is already broken. Messing with that one setting evens the playing field at the expense of your ammunition burn rate. So your "game-breaking" setting modification is still balanced in the end. Pity you don't "grasp" that. *shrug* yeah , look chap, i'm REALLY not interested in this you've obviously got some "issues" with the game, I am far more interested in pointing out to modders that this value has far reaching consequences for gameplay. Its up to them how they use it, not me, but it is only fair for somebody who has actually used it to tell them what it can do. If you want a big broohaha over balance, go to the 2k forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkin Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I think this is how the Assult class gets the 4 range 'reaction shot', so the number you are adding is the effective 'activation range' of 'free overwatch' At least thats my best guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbar Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Overwatch can then, possibly have two reactions, BUT it'll only trigger on different triggers. You wont get two shots on one movement, You dont need to be in over-watch: It happens automatically and regardless of being set to over-watch status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbar Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) In my (admittedly limited) experience, I've played a few missions with my soldiers have a 10 percent reaction chance... In my moderation, I feel it really helped things, but it does add ANOTHER reaction. Overwatch can then, possibly have two reactions, BUT it'll only trigger on different triggers. You wont get two shots on one movement, but if a sectoid moves in, you get your overwatch. If he then runs for cover, you have the chance for another. It's apparent, however, that Overwatch takes priority to the Reaction stat, so for those few abilities that use Overwatch, it'll apply to that first Reaction, and then technically you're no longer on Overwatch, so you wont have abuse issues in that aspect.Dunno how much help that is tho... "Overwatch can then, possibly have two reactions," You dont need to be in overwatch for reaction fire. "You wont get two shots on one movement" Im assuming you mean "one shot per each movement" section i.e. each short-movement, not the overall move comprised of two parts? Possibly... certainly ive recorded two shots occurring in a single "total" move.. presumably a "dash", but its pretty difficult to tell the difference by the AI by observation, sometimes its obvious, a lot of the time it isnt. " It's apparent, however, that Overwatch takes priority to the Reaction stat," How is that so? We were told that overwatch induces a penalty too-hit, does reaction fire also? Observably, set @ 15, it looks to be more accurate than overwatch fire. I think this is how the Assult class gets the 4 range 'reaction shot', so the number you are adding is the effective 'activation range' of 'free overwatch' yeah i'm beginning to think that this is not a simple percentage figure, however iReaction Range on weapons stats already cover the range at which reaction fire can occur.... (with iRange the range at which the special traits on the weapon can be utilised)....(assuming the data on traits is accurate) Am trying to find it in XComGame.upk atm fwiw XGAction_FireOverwathExecuting perhaps? ------ hmm, anyway, going out for the day. Because these are character traits they will only be effective on new characters wont they? So once you have started a game with the reaction set to 15 all starting characters will get that *fixed* on them, change it to 5 and new characters will get that setting, but old characters will retain the previous setting i.e. the setting they were created with>>? Edited October 21, 2012 by Anbar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiltedjock Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) [Just be VERY CAREFUL messing with this setting, it is a SERIOUS game-killer... you have to think a bit laterally to see all the ways it can fubar game balance. agree, it doesn't necessarily make the game better to ramp this up, the value has to be low enough that any extra reaction shots from either side are occasional, that way standard tactics still apply but the risk of eg moving across open ground in sight of enemies is higher. IMO. I'm not convinced the reaction value is a straightforward 1-100. On some settings I'm sure I have seen the same unit take more than 1 reaction shot at the same enemy as it moved across its line of sight. i've only ever tested this on brand new games - safest way. Edited October 21, 2012 by jiltedjock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbar Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) had 10 mins b4 the wife drags me out shopping.. set it to 100 and troops ALWAYS take reaction shots, so just move and end turn - then have a mass gun fight!multiple shots per character, no overwatch required. So it is a percentage and not a range. - tested, verified. verifiable. and, yes, as its a character setting it only applies to new characters (game start or new hires), so you cant change mid-game. agree, it doesn't necessarily make the game better to ramp this up, the value has to be low enough that any extra reaction shots from either side are occasional, that way standard tactics still apply but the risk of eg moving across open ground in sight of enemies is higher. IMO. yeah, I agree, adds a bit of mystery that "even if aliens are NOT on overwatch, i can still be shot". 15 is too high though, thinking about 5 - 8 for myself. Edited October 21, 2012 by Anbar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defKAB Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 In my (admittedly limited) experience, I've played a few missions with my soldiers have a 10 percent reaction chance... In my moderation, I feel it really helped things, but it does add ANOTHER reaction. Overwatch can then, possibly have two reactions, BUT it'll only trigger on different triggers. You wont get two shots on one movement, but if a sectoid moves in, you get your overwatch. If he then runs for cover, you have the chance for another. It's apparent, however, that Overwatch takes priority to the Reaction stat, so for those few abilities that use Overwatch, it'll apply to that first Reaction, and then technically you're no longer on Overwatch, so you wont have abuse issues in that aspect.Dunno how much help that is tho... "Overwatch can then, possibly have two reactions," You dont need to be in overwatch for reaction fire. "You wont get two shots on one movement" Im assuming you mean "one shot per each movement" section i.e. each short-movement, not the overall move comprised of two parts? Possibly... certainly ive recorded two shots occurring in a single "total" move.. presumably a "dash", but its pretty difficult to tell the difference by the AI by observation, sometimes its obvious, a lot of the time it isnt. " It's apparent, however, that Overwatch takes priority to the Reaction stat," How is that so? We were told that overwatch induces a penalty too-hit, does reaction fire also? Observably, set @ 15, it looks to be more accurate than overwatch fire. What I mean is that when using overwatch, you'll have the normal Reaction fire from overwatch (WITH the negatives implied), and then a chance for a second reaction fire caused by the iReaction stat... But, overwatch takes priority, meaning that the overwatch will ALWAYS trigger first. This isn't an issue, or something of note, but it's neat to know if you're planning out the tactical side of a combat with the added Reaction Fire.And I only said that in my experience, ONE combatant will only get ONE reaction fire per trigger, even with Overwatch and a 100% iReaction stat. Again, I may be wrong, but its something I thought about while planning my combats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbar Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 [What I mean is that when using overwatch, you'll have the normal Reaction fire from overwatch (WITH the negatives implied), and then a chance for a second reaction fire caused by the iReaction stat... But, overwatch takes priority, meaning that the overwatch will ALWAYS trigger first. This isn't an issue, or something of note, but it's neat to know if you're planning out the tactical side of a combat with the added Reaction Fire.And I only said that in my experience, ONE combatant will only get ONE reaction fire per trigger, even with Overwatch and a 100% iReaction stat. Again, I may be wrong, but its something I thought about while planning my combats... "ONE combatant will only get ONE reaction fire per trigger" soldiers often take more than 1 reaction fire per TURN. just set it to 100 and start a new game, run soldier forward and end turn, no overwatch set, nothing fired..and just observe: you will get lots of reaction fire per soldier. That's easily verified. "But, overwatch takes priority, meaning that the overwatch will ALWAYS trigger first." Is that a guess or from within the code buried in a .upk somewhere? "I may be wrong, but its something I thought about while planning my combats..." Im afraid it is wrong...sorry: just do the above test and see for yourself, but remember you have to start a brand new game, you cannot use a prior game load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
versengeteriks Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 wondering if we could add reaction range to increase as characters level up? that would be a useful adaption for this feature. havent time to test it right now but if anyone succeeds please post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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