Questions about broken precombines

[Undernier]

So I found this great mod recently, Project Apocalyptic Commonwealth. It looks really great but It's breaking every precomb/previs in Concord and Red Rocket which, as you'd guess, is not too good for optimization.

 

I've been messing around with it in Foedit and managed to restore some of the precombines by removing every modifications made to vanilla assets and landscapes. (This approach has worked for me on past projects where I had disabled some vanilla trees which broke precomb/previs. Removing their entries from my mod had restored the precomb at the time).

 

The problem I'm having here, is that, In this mod, even after being cleared of all modifications made to vanilla assets, some cells still have broken precomb/previs.

 

You can see the foedit entry here

 

I really don't understand what could cause that kind of errors so, any help or suggestions would be very very appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[MissingMeshTV]

Going by your screenshot, it looks like you’ve removed all of the precombined data as well as the precombine and previs timestamps. Or was it missing from the mod already? In any event, that’s your problem: the mod's VISI, RVIS, PCMB and XCRI records are completely blank for that cell.

 

The game compares the data in the precombined XCRI records to the timestamp in the PCMB field. If the timestamp differs from the vanilla (without any newly regenerated precombines to match up) or is outright missing altogether as it is here, the optimization for the cell will be disabled. Since all of that data is missing from the cell record, the game just disables the optimization system for that cell because there is no data for it to read and compare. That is by design.

 

None of the objects added by the mod seem to be part of a precombine. If they were, they would display as [Placed Object]. The brackets are what you want to look for as they denote a static that is part of a precombine. But the cell still needs to have that data that you seem to have removed for the optimization system to function as intended.

 

You could try copying the VISI, RVIS, PCMB and XCRI records from the Fallout4.esm into the mod records. But there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot added to that cell to begin with, so it would likely be far easier to just remove the record for the 0000DE22 altogether if you can live without a few extra vines and skeletons. That’s what I would do.

 

I suggest taking some time to go through this thread on the FO4 optimization system. Lots of helpful info there regarding this goofy optimization system.

 

EDIT: You might be able to get by with just copying over the timestamp data, but I can't say for sure. I think the game will still look for the rest of the data. I've never tried that sort of restoration and just opt to remove the problematic cell(s) altogether or just not use the mod. As an aside, xEdit is good for working around problems with precombines, but the only way to truly repair/restore broken precombines is to regenerate them in the CK.

Edited November 14, 2019 by RedRocketTV

[VIitS]

XPRI data doesn't seem to matter much, but you definitely need the timestamps, RVIS, and the XCRI data (RVIS tells the game which CELLID.uvd file to use, if there is nothing there but there is VISI data, it will look for a .uvd for the current cell, which in this case doesn't exist.

 

That said, for any mod that only creates new placed objects and does not touch existing REFRs, it should not break precombineds. Copying the VISI, RVIS, PCMB, XCRI, and XPRI data over should be all you need for that particular cell.

 

As RRTV said though, if you have another Cell that does touch REFRs that show as [Placed Object] (with brackets), then you either need to regenerate precombineds for that cell, deal with it being broken in that cell, or remove that edited REFR.

[markusm1000]

 

The problem I'm having here, is that, In this mod, even after being cleared of all modifications made to vanilla assets, some cells still have broken precomb/previs.

 

You killed all PreComb-Entries. just copy them back (simply drag&drop).

 

 

 

You are done, when Meshes Count and References Count equals the number of the original entries.

[Undernier]

Thanks everybody for your answers. Here are a few more details and things I've tried that you may find interesting.

 

As you've all pointed, out and as I had also guessed, the missing VISI, RVIS, PCMB and XCRI, were the cause of breaking the mod's optimization. What I didn't understand, is how the mod author could have lost those records accidentally. I wanted to know how it happened because it caused problem in one of the solution I tried to fix it. I'll come back to that in a minute.

 

Per your suggestions, I quickly tried to copy over only the timestamps and RVIS records but that alone didn't fix the problem.

 

Before posting this message I also already tried copying over ALL the missing data but this resulted in some previs glitch in the game.

For instance, I copied the records for two cells that were around the museum of freedom and the precombines actually were restored BUT when I moved closer to the building it glitched out of sight (likely due to some previs issues).

 

This made me think that it might be because precomb are tied to one cell but previs works for group of 3 (If I understood correctly?), which would mean that, to fix the entire mod, I would have to copy over ALL the missing data for ALL the broken cells.

Unfortunately this mod has lost those records for more than 10 cells which would mean I'd have thousands of record to copy by hand ... and I'm not willing to put that much time into fixing this mod (as much as I'd like to play with it).

 

Also, here are other things I've done in the past to restore the precombines but didn't work for this particular problem:

 

solution 1:

• removing all modified vanilla ref as well as landscape modifications.
• To me it seems to be a very simple fix if you don't want to regenerate the precomb/previs and it's usually very quick to implement.
• Obviously this solution didn't work for that mod since it wouldn't recreate the missing records (but I hadn't noticed them at the time).

solution 2:

• create a new mod and move copies of the old mod over to it.
• This solution has also worked well for me in the past. Let's say I broke something in Andrew station in an old mod. I would create a copy of all references of that cell (including the default references as well as the one I added) and then duplicate those references once again but inside a new mod.
• This usually result in a clean new file with all the vanilla data intact and containing a new "messy" layer with all my previous additions. I would then have to clean the new layer but precomb/previs would be restored pretty quickly.
• However this didn't work either for this mod.
• I don't understand why but, when came the time to move the copied assets over to the new mod (in the CK) they carried with them modifications to all the VISI, RVIS, PCMB and XCRI records and removed them from the new mod. I really don't get why this would happen since what I'm basically doing is just adding new objects (copies of default/vanilla objects and copies of added objects) to a cell without changing the originals which shouldn't break anything...

 

Also, If you're wondering why I seem hesitant to regenerate precomb/previs? There are two reasons for that. First, I have tried it in the past but never achieved the desired result. Either performances didn't improve or I would create new previs glitches in the surrounding areas. Secondly, my hardware isn't that great and regenerating those data proved very time consuming and since this mod is modifying a very large area (basically all cells around concord up to the red rocket) I really didn't want to spend hours trying that approach.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Undernier

[VIitS]

It is definitely a previs issue, and the only way it might be related to Precombineds is if one of the other cells has broken precombineds, and one of the things that used to be part of a precombined mesh was blocking the view of the building from the point you are standing/walking when it disappears.

 

Try this:

 

First, if the mod has any non-ESM plugins as masters, flag those plugins as ESM using FO4Edit (Do NOT rename them to .esm, just give them the flag in the file header), or the CK will rip those masters out and cause problems.

 

For the cell that is listed under RVIS, load that Cell in the CK (with the mod enabled) and Generate Precombined Visiblity for loaded Cells (or however it is described for the one that doesn't try to remake it for the world). This will remake the previs for the 3x3 cell block, and make sure that it is properly centered on the same cell the vanilla previs is.

 

Precombineds are being ignored here, and the previs system is a third party system Bethesda licensed, so is much more stable. You should be able to just set it running and come back in a few minutes with it done.

[markusm1000]

What I didn't understand, is how the mod author could have lost those records accidentally.

 

This may happen, if you are not so accurate with your mouse. You want to preview something and accidentally you kill your PreCombines.

 

 

 

If you have selected a common object, like a tree or the coffee cup, at this very moment, you killed all PreCombines in the hole game :devil:

 

(The propper way to use this feature, is to create a new unique static object, place it in the cell, select it and call this function.)

 

Per your suggestions, I quickly tried to copy over only the timestamps and RVIS records but that alone didn't fix the problem.

You have to restore ALL entries!

[Undernier]

 

This may happen, if you are not so accurate with your mouse. You want to preview something and accidentally you kill your PreCombines.

 

 

Holy crap ... I had never noticed that option ... pretty dangerous stuff if you're not careful!