luzburg Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Azura changed the Chimner to Dumner after the Battle of Red Mountaiin. it was the actions of the tribunal that turned the chimer into the dunmer. azura didn't have anything to do with it personally....She cursed them after the Tribunal defied their oath and Sotha Sil cursed her. That's as personal as it gets. No hes right, Azura even said it wasn't her doing. Anything that happened was their own doing. Azura facilitated their downfall but they were failing already.Nope. Vivec, the Tribunal Temple and many other sources say that it was her. She says it was her. Azura didnt like the Anumidium, or it's power (specifically mortals trying to play or make god). They (the Tribunal) swore an oath to her, they broke the oath and dismissed her, and she cursed them. Apologies. You are right. I'm not sure where I read that it was otherwise but I definitely did, I think it was ingame not so long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperTheLich Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Azura changed the Chimner to Dumner after the Battle of Red Mountaiin. it was the actions of the tribunal that turned the chimer into the dunmer. azura didn't have anything to do with it personally....She cursed them after the Tribunal defied their oath and Sotha Sil cursed her. That's as personal as it gets. No hes right, Azura even said it wasn't her doing. Anything that happened was their own doing. Azura facilitated their downfall but they were failing already.Nope. Vivec, the Tribunal Temple and many other sources say that it was her. She says it was her. Azura didnt like the Anumidium, or it's power (specifically mortals trying to play or make god). They (the Tribunal) swore an oath to her, they broke the oath and dismissed her, and she cursed them. Apologies. You are right. I'm not sure where I read that it was otherwise but I definitely did, I think it was ingame not so long ago. the tribunal never admitted to anything that put them in a bad or lesser light, even in the end. the tribunal was cursed by tapping into lorkhan’s heart, and the chimer were cursed by the tribunal, though that was unintentional. Azura only hastened the tribunal's downfall, and to a lesser extent the dunmer as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnkhAscendant Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I remember reading in-game books that said Azura came to the Tribunal after using the tools and being very wrathful, and telling them that she turned their skin ashen. Maybe that was just a story, but it's pretty reasonable to take it at face value if it's presented. Seems like what the people in the game might believe. Now I've started to wonder how the Dunmer feel about having been changed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperTheLich Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) I remember reading in-game books that said Azura came to the Tribunal after using the tools and being very wrathful, and telling them that she turned their skin ashen. Maybe that was just a story, but it's pretty reasonable to take it at face value if it's presented. Seems like what the people in the game might believe. Now I've started to wonder how the Dunmer feel about having been changed.. as i recall azura did appear to the tribunal, but what she actually said was ment as a warning, if you read it carefully.i can't recall verbatim, but it was something along the line of... if you steal the power of a dead god the act itself will corrupt you as surely as it did dagoth ur. or something like that. and her wrath was bringing back lord nerevar. ---edit again---and even in that book you're talking about she never said she turned their skin ashen and eyes red, she said the tribunal's action's were responsible. Edited October 31, 2012 by Invisible Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enatiomorph Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Azura changed the Chimner to Dumner after the Battle of Red Mountaiin. it was the actions of the tribunal that turned the chimer into the dunmer. azura didn't have anything to do with it personally....She cursed them after the Tribunal defied their oath and Sotha Sil cursed her. That's as personal as it gets. No hes right, Azura even said it wasn't her doing. Anything that happened was their own doing. Azura facilitated their downfall but they were failing already.Nope. Vivec, the Tribunal Temple and many other sources say that it was her. She says it was her. Azura didnt like the Anumidium, or it's power (specifically mortals trying to play or make god). They (the Tribunal) swore an oath to her, they broke the oath and dismissed her, and she cursed them. Apologies. You are right. I'm not sure where I read that it was otherwise but I definitely did, I think it was ingame not so long ago. the tribunal never admitted to anything that put them in a bad or lesser light, even in the end. the tribunal was cursed by tapping into lorkhan’s heart, and the chimer were cursed by the tribunal, though that was unintentional. Azura only hastened the tribunal's downfall, and to a lesser extent the dunmer as a whole.Azura cursed the Chimer. They (the Tribunal) made an oath, they broke it, she cursed them for it. Seriously people, just go read the in game books about it. From Vivec to the Tribunal temple, to Azura herself. All say she cursed them. And no sooner than we had completed our rituals and begun to discover our new-found powers, the Daedra Lord Azura appeared and cursed us for our foresworn oaths. By her powers of prophecy, she assured us that her champion, Nerevar, true to his oath, would return to punish us for our perfidy, and to make sure such profane knowledge might never again be used to mock and defy the will of the gods. But Sotha Sil said to her, "The old gods are cruel and arbitrary, and distant from the hopes and fears of mer. Your age is past. We are the new gods, born of the flesh, and wise and caring of the needs of our people. Spare us your threats and chiding, inconstant spirit. We are bold and fresh, and will not fear you." And then, in that moment, all Chimer were changed into Dunmer, and our skins turned ashen and our eyes into fire. Of course, we only knew at that time that this had happened to us, but Azura said, "You have chosen your fate, and the fate of your people, and all the Dunmer shall share your fate, from now to the end of time. You think yourselves gods, but you are blind, and all is darkness." And Azura left us alone, in darkness, and we were all afraid, but we put on brave faces, and went forth from Red Mountain to build the new world of our dreams. Then Azura came forth anyway and cursed the Tribunal for their foul deeds. She told them that she would use her powers over dusk and dawn to make sure Nerevar would come back and make things right again. But the Tribunal laughed at her and said that soon they would be gods themselves and that the Chimer people would forget their old ways of worship. And Azura knew this would be true and that it would take a long time before her power might bring Nerevar back. "What you have done here today is foul beyond measure and you will grow to regret it, for the lives of gods are not what mortals think and matters that weigh only years to mortals weigh on gods forever." And so that they might know forever their wicked deeds Azura changed the Chimer into Dunmer, and their skin turned ashen and their eyes into fire. "Let this mark remind you of your true selves who, like ghouls, fed on the nobility, heroism, and trust of their king." If Azura is never in the picture, or doesnt bother cursing them, then they never change. In the end, she did it. And it was as personal as ever. Edited October 31, 2012 by Enatiomorph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperTheLich Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 i do vaguely remember those lines. what books are they from, out of curiosity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enatiomorph Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 i do vaguely remember those lines. what books are they from, out of curiosity?Both of the Red Mountain books. The Vivec one, and the one the Tribunal Temple wrote. there are more examples, but those two are the most fleshed out and direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperTheLich Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 i do vaguely remember those lines. what books are they from, out of curiosity?Both of the Red Mountain books. The Vivec one, and the one the Tribunal Temple wrote. there are more examples, but those two are the most fleshed out and direct. i did always have trouble accepting anything the tribunal or the tribunal temple said. but oh, well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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