Is Bethesda Corrupt (Skyrim DLCs and Updates)

[BCbrad]

Beth left so many open ended stories and roads to know where for future revenue. The next Elder Scrolls is likely years and years away, so look forward to a long future of dlc's. Personally, I look forward to a rebellion to boot the Thalmor, development of the Dwemer story, followers of Stendar, and Forsworn. I am cautiously optimistic about future dlc;s and as long as I get good content and immersion I don’t mind paying.

[JanusForbeare]

How is Steam Workshop monetizing mods? I've /never/ had to pay for a single mod from Steam Workshop.

 

I'm not speaking from personal experience, as I choose not to use SW. However, this passage from the Steam Workshop Contribution Agreement is what I'm going off of... it generated a lot of controversy prior to the release of the CK.

 

3. Free and Paid Distribution

Valve may choose to distribute Your Contribution for free and/or for a fee. Where Valve distributes Your Contribution for free, Valve has no obligation to compensate You. With respect to Third Party Games, the end user license or subscription terms for the Third Party Game may preclude You from giving Valve the right to distribute Your Contribution for a fee.

 

a. Payments for Paid Distribution of Valve Games.

If Valve chooses to distribute Your Contribution for a Valve Game for a fee, then Valve may set the price for such distribution in its sole discretion, and Valve will pay You as follows, conditioned on Your compliance with the obligations contained in this Agreement. Beginning with the calendar month in which Valve first distributes a copy of the Valve Game Contribution for a fee, Valve shall pay to You twenty-five percent (25%) of the Adjusted Gross Revenue (defined below) actually received by Valve from Valve’s distribution of the copy of the Valve Game Contribution during the calendar month. To the extent that the payment calculation results in a negative amount, that negative amount will be carried forward and deducted from any future amounts otherwise payable by Valve hereunder. Valve will remit payment in accordance with Valve procedures, currently net 30 paid in full. Please note that Valve may change procedures in the future, for example requiring a minimum amount to accumulate before making a payment. You also acknowledge and agree that other users, and Valve itself, may create other works that are similar to Your Valve Game Contribution(s), and that Valve’s payment obligations under this Section 3 only apply with respect to the distribution of actual copies of Your Valve Game Contribution(s).

 

Full text here.

[luzburg]

 

Well first, people donate to modders. So don't tell me that modders 'do it for free' when you can donate to them

 

I've been a fan of TES since the Daggerfall days, but there's a lot about Skyrim to be disappointed in. If another competitor steps onto the playing field and starts releasing quality, moddable, open-world RPGs, it's a safe bet that they're going to start getting my money (and time as a modder). Beth really needs to get their act together if they don't want to lose their traditional fan base.

 

 

Thats the thing. They can afford not to support mods and this traditional fan base if they can get the much larger casual audience hooked. I don't think that PC people giving them grief like this is a good idea. They might just turn around one day and say enough, its not worth our effort releasing modtools.

 

When there is a true rival to what Bethesda offer, I'll be there too. That rival won't trouble Bethesda's profits until they in turn go down the casual road.

[TheUninvitedGuest]

The Premise of the OP's post seems to forget the Bethesda is a company - with operating costs, staff to pay and shareholders to look after. This is NOT a bad thing - it is what makes the world go round. The fact of the matter is that by and large the Bethesda team has the volume of talent and the resources needed to create things on a scale completely unattainable by the modding community (with some exceptions). Yes their games have bugs, and yes they have dumbed down the experience for casual play. They have also improved base mechanics and overall polish no end.

 

I guess my point is that if DLC's and casual play are whats needed to make the numbers work for Bethesda so that they may continue to support (in part at least) a loyal subset of users on the side (the modding community and PC gamers) then I am all for it.

 

TL;DR: No/Worse DLC => worse long term casual play experience => less casual players => less money => Less of a game for us all to mod and enjoy.

[ginnyfizz]

 

Well first, people donate to modders. So don't tell me that modders 'do it for free' when you can donate to them

 

 

I don't even accept donations. In my mind, modding has always been a voluntary, free service. I don't like that it's being monetized through the Steam Workshop, and I'm not a huge fan of the fact that it's being monetized here. It's a slippery slope, and one that I think is best avoided.

 

Bethesda, on the other hand, is rolling in profits that far, far outweigh their development costs. They can afford to spend more time and money innovating and thoroughly bugtesting their products, but they choose not to. I don't have a lot of sympathy for a company that chooses flash over substance, and Beth is definitely going down that road.

 

I've been a fan of TES since the Daggerfall days, but there's a lot about Skyrim to be disappointed in. If another competitor steps onto the playing field and starts releasing quality, moddable, open-world RPGs, it's a safe bet that they're going to start getting my money (and time as a modder). Beth really needs to get their act together if they don't want to lose their traditional fan base.

 

This, most certainly. I do not and would not accept donations either. And as to the rest of your post, I could not have put it better. My thoughts exactly.

 

 

How is Steam Workshop monetizing mods? I've /never/ had to pay for a single mod from Steam Workshop.

 

I'm not speaking from personal experience, as I choose not to use SW. However, this passage from the Steam Workshop Contribution Agreement is what I'm going off of... it generated a lot of controversy prior to the release of the CK.

 

3. Free and Paid Distribution

Valve may choose to distribute Your Contribution for free and/or for a fee. Where Valve distributes Your Contribution for free, Valve has no obligation to compensate You. With respect to Third Party Games, the end user license or subscription terms for the Third Party Game may preclude You from giving Valve the right to distribute Your Contribution for a fee.

 

a. Payments for Paid Distribution of Valve Games.

If Valve chooses to distribute Your Contribution for a Valve Game for a fee, then Valve may set the price for such distribution in its sole discretion, and Valve will pay You as follows, conditioned on Your compliance with the obligations contained in this Agreement. Beginning with the calendar month in which Valve first distributes a copy of the Valve Game Contribution for a fee, Valve shall pay to You twenty-five percent (25%) of the Adjusted Gross Revenue (defined below) actually received by Valve from Valve’s distribution of the copy of the Valve Game Contribution during the calendar month. To the extent that the payment calculation results in a negative amount, that negative amount will be carried forward and deducted from any future amounts otherwise payable by Valve hereunder. Valve will remit payment in accordance with Valve procedures, currently net 30 paid in full. Please note that Valve may change procedures in the future, for example requiring a minimum amount to accumulate before making a payment. You also acknowledge and agree that other users, and Valve itself, may create other works that are similar to Your Valve Game Contribution(s), and that Valve’s payment obligations under this Section 3 only apply with respect to the distribution of actual copies of Your Valve Game Contribution(s).

 

Full text here.

 

I well remember that controversy too. Before the CK was released we didn't even know if we would be compelled to upload to Steam Workshop, which I refuse to do. And it still makes me concerned that they may try and make mods for future games chargeable. In which case they can...oh never mind, I won't use the kind of language that springs to mind on these forums.

[Arcadiast]

In the hopes that this is and will stay a civilized discussion I like to toss in my humble opinion in this matter.

 

First to answer your question; Is Bethesda corrupt? No! how do I know that? well I grew up in a judicial system where a suspect is innocent until proven guilty.

 

Bethesdas DLC policy is no different than other major game companies. In fact it can be considered quite moderate compared to some other "heavy hitters". Bethesda is practically following business standards of todays gaming world and in doing so making sure they stay in business. Thats no crime.

 

As a matter of fact, Bethesda could have gone much worse. Think of games requiring constant online connection even for single player which I think (and please do consider this as my own opinion and not a general truth) is a atrocity. Bethesda still offers great support for modding and for modders maybe the greatest support out of all companies save for some independents.

 

So I think that Bethesda has a lot more on the "positive" (for us gamers at least) side than on the "negative".

 

I consider DLCs as a way to support Bethesda for their future Projects. As long as Bethesda continues supporting free and unrestricted modding/modders I will continue supporting them.

 

This is a free Market my friends. This means that companies have certain liberties considering their products but it also means that we customers are also free to look somewhere else or even completely abstain from buying their products if they dont meet our demands.

 

So finally I have to say, Bethesda is just as corrupt as we (customers) are dumb!

[slainia]

I was thinking about this question, and realized something.

 

The way i'm looking at it, corrupt is pretty much the wrong term entirely.

A better question might be, have bethesda's values changed from morrowind -> oblivion -> skyrim?

I'm not sure if i can honestly answer that question, I played oblivion but wasn't around enough to know how they handled patches etc, or anything about the dlcs aside from the horse armor issue.

 

Thing is, i DO think bethesda's quality control tests could be improved - not regarding computer configurations, or some of the more obscure quest conflicts. I don't expect them to be perfect. I'm not sure anyone does, really.

What really does get to me, though, is issues that are acknowledged by the company, then shelved. Sometimes, said issue might be difficult to fix - I expect the first person skeleton view height might be such an issue.

But other times, i'm not sure that's the case. how many times have they left long-standing issues in, sometimes with little indication that they're even working on the problem?

 

For example - if I were a ps3 user that was facing the prospect of not being able to get dlcs, I would have two ways of reacting.

 

The first would be understanding. Basically "ok, bethesda has said they're working hard to get dawnguard functional for the pc, but they keep running into difficulties. I'm upset, yes, but i don't hold a grudge."

 

The second would be anger. Basically, "They've pretty much ignored the ps3, we haven't gotten any info on dawnguard, they're releasing other dlcs for the game on the xbox and pc but no word on the p3s. weve been ignored, we paid full price for the game for half the (potential) content. l'm angry, l won't buy from bethesda again."

 

Whats the difference between the two? Pretty much how bethesda handles the situation. In the first, they provide information (even vague) on what they're doing to get dawnguard working and so on. In the second, it's a brick wall of silence.

 

Frankly, it's all a matter of customer service; my rather convoluted example shows that, when a company's user base if faced with the same problem, the comapany themselves can have a LOT of impact on how said users respond to it, just by engaging them in the problem and/or solution..

 

Has bethesda done that? Do they inform the user base when they're releasing bug fixes, specific enough that it can help the user should they come across problems resulting from the patch? do they take reports and act on them when they can?

 

to me, these are the questions that determine if i'll keep supporting bethesda, or any game company really.

[Riprock]

 

Well first, people donate to modders. So don't tell me that modders 'do it for free' when you can donate to them

 

 

I don't even accept donations. In my mind, modding has always been a voluntary, free service. I don't like that it's being monetized through the Steam Workshop, and I'm not a huge fan of the fact that it's being monetized here. It's a slippery slope, and one that I think is best avoided.

 

Bethesda, on the other hand, is rolling in profits that far, far outweigh their development costs. They can afford to spend more time and money innovating and thoroughly bugtesting their products, but they choose not to. I don't have a lot of sympathy for a company that chooses flash over substance, and Beth is definitely going down that road.

 

I've been a fan of TES since the Daggerfall days, but there's a lot about Skyrim to be disappointed in. If another competitor steps onto the playing field and starts releasing quality, moddable, open-world RPGs, it's a safe bet that they're going to start getting my money (and time as a modder). Beth really needs to get their act together if they don't want to lose their traditional fan base.

 

I don't accept donations either; respectfully, I've put thousands of hours into researching historical events for a combat flight sim for which I have produced very popular, free, third party work for, and that doesn't count the accurate historical paint schemes I researched and produced. I have spent hundreds of dollars on research material, and, well, etc etc etc you get the idea. I will not say that being a modder for TES is easier or harder than the work I have done; it is different, surely, but at it's heart, it is still lots of work done for zero monetary gain on the part of the modders- in this case, you, and me. I agree with you; it is not something I like seeing, third-party people getting money. But it is demonstrably going on. I do my work for love of doing it and sharing it- you sound like you have a similar attitude. I wouldn;t take money if it were offered. It's a gift, not a thing I have for sale. Hearing that people liked it is my reward.

 

I cannot speak to Bethsoft's profit margin and development costs. They have so far not included me in their business model discussions ;0) I will not comment on these things I have no way of knowing, but I will say that yes it is reasonable for them to be making a profit, and I'm sure they are

 

I've been a fan of TES for a little less time than you, but I also agree- Skyrim has it's downsides. So did Oblivion. So did Morrowind. But in Skyrim, at least they made a concerted effort to listen to the fan base. Whether or not it is even possible to do that and pelase a majority is a serious question, and I don't have an answer for it, but it is remarkable that they tried.

 

Personally, one of the things I like about TES is that each installment is a little different. To me, that helps keep it fresh and enjoyable.

 

However, I cannot agree that the fact I pointed out- that modders can and do accept donations now- not all, certainly, but some do- is either debatable, or linked to Beth's failure to satisfy anyone with Skyrim; it is just a fact, whether you or I like it or not.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Riprock