Malchik Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I'm not sure that this isn't getting too tangential. Even if you call the 'marriage' a union, it will still be known as a marriage in popular parlance. To be honest, the word should not matter. I don't see how you make the assumption that god does not like gays. No one knows what god thinks or does but he created everyone as they are so presumably he doesn't give a damn. However the forum does not like debates on religious grounds as they always end in tears (and flames). And please tyjet3, don't call another person's opinion crap. You may disagree and debate the reasons but keep it polite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyjet3 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I am very sorry if I offended anyone... :oops: ... lets face it, this topic is heated... and yes malchik, you are right, god doesn't care... but christians who follow god do not like gays... I DON'T HATE GAYS... one of my close friends is gay... @brighid-I didn't mean to call your opinion crap, I just don't think equallity will ever happen until we drop all the problems causing it not to work but people won't let things go. I have never thought that may race would matter as to what school I get in to (schools MUST montain a 10% minority rate in their schools) or what kind of job I get... Race should not ever be an issue. I'm done with this topic... and the gay marriage one... I have said what I wanted to say... PM if you must... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiade Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 here's my opinion on this issue that i formed recently... i don't think that the government should be involved in social and moral issues because i don't think the gov't should tell us what morals we should have. for instance, abortion is something in which opinions are formed through personal morals and beliefs. the gov't should have no say in our personal morals and beliefs. all the arguing that is happening about stuff like abortion, gay marriage, and stuff like that is based upon personal opinion. the gov't cannot tell us what we are supposed to believe. there is something called the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. this document has no affiliation with any religion. it is a list of 30-40 rights that every person is entitled to as a human. as long as an opinion doesn't impose on any of these natural-born rights, then it is a respectable one. as for issues like gay-marriage: i think that it is none of the government's business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighid Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 there is something called the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. this document has no affiliation with any religion. it is a list of 30-40 rights that every person is entitled to as a human. as long as an opinion doesn't impose on any of these natural-born rights, then it is a respectable one. I agree with Eiade that government should not impose morality, because morality differs so much among people and cultures. Refusing to allow gays to marry clearly violates many articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 1. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. Denying Gays the right to marry makes them unequal in dignity and rights before the law. Article 2. Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty. As political or other opinion is included here, sexual orientation most likely would fall under this. Article 6. Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law. Article 7. All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination. To allow straight people to marry and not gay people, you deny gay people equal recognition and equal protection before the law. Article 16. (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution. (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses. (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State. This says nowhere men must marry women, just that everyone of full age must be allowed the right to marry. This also describes quite well in part (3) why Civil Unions, or some shadow of marriage is not enough for many gay people. as for issues like gay-marriage: i think that it is none of the government's business. I believe that it is the government's responsibility to protect the rights of its citizens, thus the government must protect the rights of gays to marry. For a government ot back away, and leave it to local governece is dereliction of duty in my eyes. For a government to attempt to deny civil rights to an entire section of the population is tyranny. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a beautiful document, I only wish we could reach the point where all humans are given them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiade Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I believe that it is the government's responsibility to protect the rights of its citizens, thus the government must protect the rights of gays to marry. For a government ot back away, and leave it to local governece is dereliction of duty in my eyes. For a government to attempt to deny civil rights to an entire section of the population is tyranny. but i think gays are getting married as we speak. i've definitely heard of two gay guys getting married... i think... and not just in massachusettes, where it's officially legalized. i was kind of assuming gays already had the ability to marry. if this is incorrect, then i defenitely agree that it's the government's responsibility to protect gay rights. they're people too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmid Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 but i think gays are getting married as we speak. i've definitely heard of two gay guys getting married... i think... and not just in massachusettes, where it's officially legalized. i was kind of assuming gays already had the ability to marry. No, you're wrong in that. Gay people can 'co-habit' and make a pledge to be 'life partners', but, in the eyes of the law, this is not worth the paper it's written on. In effect, the law views this situation as two single people merely sharing the same house, nothing more. They don't get the same protection and the same rights as 'straight' marriages under the law. if this is incorrect, then i defenitely agree that it's the government's responsibility to protect gay rights. they're people too. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyjet3 Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 The problem here is that gay couples don't have the same rights and choices that a straight couple do. Married couples have certain rights that they earn when they marry. That is why the government is involved in marriages. Tax cuts, health insurance, ect., lots of thing are earned by marriage. Gay people want that option too. I think it is wrong that they don't have it! They have every right to have that. Government should be involve but shouldn't restrict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltiraaz Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Liberty one America's favorite words, directly meaning the freedom to make your own desicions. The government of any nation should not restrict its citizens of anything as long as it doesnot cause undue harm to others. Allowing homosexuals to marry doesnt harm anyone. The flags we in Canada and the US live under do not dictate to us what religion we believe in. Then I dont see why there is any reason they should dictate to you who you marry. Simply put the government isnt about religion, colour, sexuality. Its there so that its citizens can have the best possible quality of life. I assume the best possbile quality of life includes the right to allow those in love to marry, no matter what gender they are. A civil union does not do justice to gay rights because civil unions simply do not have the same legal and financial security as a marriage. Its more than just a piece of paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyjet3 Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I agree with Eltiraaz... on some parts... I still think that you should not call it marriage, but I do think that what ever it is called it should be the exactly same thing in policies and other things just like straight marriages. It would be easier to just make a new word... yes, probably after a while "gay marriage" will be known as just general marriage, but we should let that happen naturally and not force it on the people that want marrige to have the same meaning. Just keep everyone happy for now and let things change naturally. Our society is shaky to make a big sudden change like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indoril Nerevar Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Note to Malchik: Yes, we do know what God thinks, It's called the Bible, get one from your local library or something. End of dicussion (unless you want to PM) "As has already been pointed out, not all animals need male and female." - WhiteWolf What in the world do you mean by that. That is biologically impossible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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