Killable children mod opinions.

[jaysus]

@crackedaxe...

 

just because there are kids means that this game will become a home for pedophiles and child killers?

well dude maybe god(or whoever is guilty) should have left children out of the concept of life then?

so noone will be tempted to do bad?

not every kindergarten is a pool of sins...

 

the sims is alot more sexistic

 

who cares if some teenage nerds %&$! to a digital chick instead of a playboy mag? whats the difference apart from them even being creative creating their own nude chicks?

 

it seems to me youre just a lil over careful... there is the world! its real! and bad things happen from time to time! but that does not mean that having the possibility to go out to pillage, blunder and rape will actually make the people do so...

 

and i honestly see no bloody point why my freedom should be restrcited in any way just cause one or two morons are in 1000people...

[BulletSix]

hmm ...

first and foremost: i do not intent to morally judge. Just try to state my point on this ;)

 

imo this mod would only be viable if you suffer a big karma loss if you kill a child, as this is imo amongst the most despicable crimes someone can commit.

Even now children are the most precious treasures we have, it would be even more in such a hellish environment as Fallout 3 provides.

[freely translated:]

There are three things left from paradise:

the flowers of the day

the stars of the night

and the eyes of the children

Yes i am a father.

Yes i play Fallout3 with fun (non censored version)

No, i won´t install this mod

 

these are my 2 cts only.

 

p.s.

btw i voted "??? There's a mod for that!?!?" since the clearly declining option seems too harsh and is verbalized too offending

[Silveressa]

btw i voted "??? There's a mod for that!?!?" since the clearly declining option seems too harsh and is verbalized too offending

 

That's why I added the "other" vote option for people with opinions that weren't covered by the other 3 choices. ;)

 

I agree fully there should be a huge karma loss for such a vile act, similar to the "child killer" rep you got in FO 2. In FO 2 when you got that rep many people would refuse to trade with you, and others would attack you on sight. (as well as a heavily armed roving merc group that made it their purpose in life to kill you) Such a thing is only to be expected if one commits such an evil act.

 

Funny though how enslaving children in the game is acceptable to Beth studios, (despite the foul abuse such child slaves would be subjected to,) compared to the arguably more merciful killing of one.

 

Still like you yourself said, it's entertainment and only a game, and compared to Stephen King novels (which my high school library stocked way back in the day 10+ years ago for us high school teenagers to read.) Having killable children in a video game marketed towards 17+ is really pretty tame.

[Crackedaxe]

and i honestly see no bloody point why my freedom should be restrcited in any way just cause one or two morons are in 1000people...

 

Really?

 

I stand by everything I've said. A minority of poorly-socialised, basement-dwelling misfits could ruin this for Fallout fans and gamers in general, especially considering that the first 'little lamplight massacre' video's have already started appearing on Youtube, complete with young children getting their heads blown off, and all set to rock music. Way to try and get this game catapulted into the news.

[Silveressa]

especially considering that the first 'little lamplight massacre' video's have already started appearing on Youtube, complete with young children getting their heads blown off, and all set to rock music. Way to try and get this game catapulted into the news.

 

One could make the exact same kind of video using footage from any slasher movie with teenagers in it, or with a bit of work modding virtually any modern game. (any game that uses the unreal III engine would be capable of such a thing with a little modding.)

 

I think though mainly the reason why so many people are making such (admittedly disgusting) videos is to "stick it to the man." In this case Beth Studios who made them "untouchable." If they'd made them just the same as every other character in the game people wouldn't be so tempted to go out of their way to glorify what they have been "forbidden" from doing.

 

The second you make something that "can't be done" you invite every rebellious person to come along and find away to do it (and then show off) just because they can.

 

I don't see such videos made of massacres of the kids in the Den from FO 2 or other games with killable children, such as Jagged Alliance 2, Deus Ex, and the innocent ones in Bioshock you suck the life blood out of.

 

There's also the game Black and White. Sacrificing little children in your altar actually gave you more mana for your spells than sacrificing anything else.

 

Plus, there were side quests that involved child killing, taunting you to be evil with them or just be good and let them be, killing something else.

 

So really the issue of video game children being killed in whatever fashion is nothing new, just the fact this game put them in and made them invulnerable drew the attention of everyone, and now they've undone it, basking in the glory of their accomplishment.

 

If Fable 2 ever hits the pc, you can bet someone will mod the kids there to be vulnerable too and make videos, just because they're "untouchable".

[Omnimmotus]

They really should have left child characters out of the game. There are some 'realities' that shouldn't be gratuitously recreated for our entertainment, some themes that should only be explored by those with the intellect to treat them with deep respect. I think it was a pretty dumb move by Bethesda to stick those characters in, when they knew full well how resourceful the modding community is, and when they don't have full disclaimers about modification of their intellectual property. Oblivion has already started to get something of a reputation as a game where strange, misfit young men live out sweaty, sordid and voyeuristic little fantasies on their heavily modded Oblivion. Example: how long before we get a 'Sexlivion' for FO3 (assuming we get a CS, or maybe the modders won't need one). Yeah, that's the problem. Does FO3 get the reputation as the game with child-murder and child-sex mods? And how would you morally seperate one from the other? Both would depict violent violation of children, and most members of the public might well assume that anybody interested in one might well be interested in the other.

 

Knowing how utterly frigging puerile and tasteless people can be, Bethesda should never have left themselves open for this.

You do realize that essentially the point of Fallout is gratuitously recreating realities with nigh complete freedom? The earlier games came with both killing kids AND sex included. The only reason Bethesda cut that is the current conservative industry and ESRB. Right now, everything has to be "politically correct", sometimes to the point where free speech is considered less important than tiptoeing around harmless topics. Excuse me guys, but I don't remember any amendment about politically correct discussion in the Bill of Rights.

 

and i honestly see no bloody point why my freedom should be restrcited in any way just cause one or two morons are in 1000people...

Really?

 

I stand by everything I've said. A minority of poorly-socialised, basement-dwelling misfits could ruin this for Fallout fans and gamers in general, especially considering that the first 'little lamplight massacre' video's have already started appearing on Youtube, complete with young children getting their heads blown off, and all set to rock music. Way to try and get this game catapulted into the news.

You know why they bothered releasing those videos? Because it wasn't allowed in the normal game. They're publicizing their accomplishment to say, "You can't stop us, trying to slow us down only makes it worse." I bet if children were killable in the base game, you'd see far less YouTube videos about it.

 

 

 

 

That being said, personally I think this is a good and needed mod. Not because I want to kill children, but because I consider children sacred and suspect to all the difficulties of human life that I am. Before this mod came out, I shot a number of the game's children. (Didn't do anything, so it was just funny.) Now I think twice.

 

Let me bring up a specific instance. I slaughtered everyone in the Republic of Dave in one game. I had a moral dilemma; I just killed all these kids parents and caretakers. They'll likely starve to death, be torn to shreds by Deathclaw, or be enslaved. I eventually decided that, as unpleasant as it might be, these children would be better off suffering quick and mostly painless deaths. The lesser of two evils. Except I couldn't actually hurt them, so I just left them stranded in the wasteland. Then again, maybe I was worrying too much; if they got attacked by a Deathclaw, they'd probably just call it a bad man and run away. (Immersion broken.)

 

Secondly, I've had firefights break out in areas near kids. My initial reaction of, "This is bad, I should try to lead the fighting away," was quickly replaced by, "Oh yeah, kids can't die. Might as well use them as body shields for raider bullets." I'm not sure using kids as cover from gunfire was part of Bethesda's original intent, or really a very healthy thing to be encouraging.

 

Bottom line is, we need children killable so there's the option not to kill them, and even to protect them. The vulnerability of the children in the game should serve as a reminder of the value of the lives of real children.

[Crackedaxe]

One could make the exact same kind of video using footage from any slasher movie with teenagers in it, or with a bit of work modding virtually any modern game. (any game that uses the unreal III engine would be capable of such a thing with a little modding.)

 

I don't think you understand how clued up the ESRB are on this. A couple of years ago they got all pissy with Bethesda because the Oblivion game code contained nipples on the female characters that could be revealed by modders. They raised the age rating on the game just because of that. How might they react if they realise that Fallout 3 contains child characters that modders can make killable by ultra-violence?

[Silveressa]

How might they react if they realize that Fallout 3 contains child characters that modders can make killable by ultra-violence?

 

Good point, given the knee-jerk-pander to the irate soccer-mom society that's evolved over the years it'll prolly create quite a fuss and get the game re-classed as Adult Only. At least until beth releases a "fixed" version without any children in it at all. (Like how GTA San Andreas came out with a new version without the bits for the hot coffee mod to work and FO 2 had a separate version for Europe without any kids in the Den.)

 

Ultimately though Beth they only have themselves to thank by making the children untouchable in the first place. :wallbash: If the long list of games I listed in my previous post can include child killing and not have any significant impact or videos. (Black & White is a teen rated game if memory serves) Then FO 3 would have likely had the same. It's mostly videos from the modders showing off. "Look what I can do Beth Studios!!!!" *middle finger*

 

In the end though the soccer-moms and media need to reassess such things. If Mcully Kulken can play a deranged murdering kid that kills other kids in the movie "The Good Son" and not become one in real life, (nor did 99.9% of people that watched the film) then the vast majority of 17+ year old players should be able to play a game like FO 3 and not become child killing psycho's. :rolleyes:

[Crackedaxe]

Good point, given the knee-jerk-pander to the irate soccer-mom society that's evolved over the years it'll prolly create quite a fuss and get the game re-classed as Adult Only.

 

I don't think it's that. It's probably more of a legacy of the 1950's and the paranoid hatred of anything too 'liberal' or 'lefty' that came during the Cold War. Those conservative bastions of morality are slowly being chipped away at and have been ever since, but it's going to take some pretty deep arguments to convince them that this sort of freedom of expression is harmless. They can actually be the worst ones for stereotyping and generalising, and games like FO3 that can be modified in such a way will give them all the ammo they need to have a crack at video games even more than they have been doing.

 

As far as they're concerned society isn't a sandbox where you can indulge in whatever you like, not in a public sense. They're not about to let people go trashing decades of morality (or, arguably, even centuries of) for the sake of a light-entertainment video game. Only serious and respected art-forms get that sort of lee-way, and even then there's a limit. We might have the freedom to do certain things in privacy but providing it publically as part of mainstream entertainment is liable to bring them howling for the developer's and publisher's blood.

 

Seriously, I hope the whole Youtube thing doesn't get viewed by the wrong people. They should pull those dumb videos asap.

[Silveressa]

Seriously, I hope the whole Youtube thing doesn't get viewed by the wrong people. They should pull those dumb videos asap.

 

Excellent idea! Seriously, as many of us as possible should get together and send private messages/emails to the makers of the vids and point out while we support and agree with the distribution of the mod, the videos are likely to get the game banned and a crack down on gaming in general that could limit theirs and everyone else's availability to enjoy such games in the future.

(Posting it as comments would be a good idea as well)

 

Granted chances are we'll get told to screw off by them, but at least others who view the vids will see that even those of us who support the mod don't condone the making of the vids and the hassles they'll bring and maybe one or more will listen to us.