Tibet controversy

[Javalin]

well thats the point tibet has been part of "china" for a very long time... and everybody exorts nature so why should the chinese stand back? maybe cause they are so reasonable and nice in opposition to the rest of mankind?

 

Correct, Tibet is a part of China. They basically have their own province in China.

 

Think of it this way. Tibet does not want to be a part of China, because they are far more spiritual and do not want those lands poluted with industry.

 

The world used to be a far more beautiful place, before industry came. Tibet, and its landscapes are one of few places in the world with those landscapes.

 

I can see why Tibet does not want to share the same industry as China. Why can't others?

 

Why should China have the right to force Tibet to change? Its a disgrace.

[jaysus]

lol i agree with you that the world was once a more beautiful place but that time is over... sorry to break it to you but even tibet is polluted yet... even the most remote area in the world is due to wind currents and the like...

 

and seeing tibet as far more spiritual is maybe not the right expression... you have some people in tibet which during WW2 were quite powerful and wealthy and want that to be reestablished...

then we have the americans which like to have instability everywhere in the world... just take the latest mumbai attacks... well if that were supposed to be some rebels well lol... (but thats another topic)

one cant just say the tibetians have this and that reason to do somin... but actually most do crap... and just live on whilst china extorts their land, faith and their people... like everywhere in the world...

 

dont mix up tibet with north ireland, chechniya or afghanistan... i dunno where youre from but lets take idaho as an example... what do you think the us gov would do if idaho said it wanted independence cause theyre all mormons and are not allowed to 5 wives? lol civil war!

same goes for industrial extortion... show me one country which would give just the slightest damn about the nature if it sees profitzzzz... swizerland is actually the only country that effectively has the ability to prevent such things due to the direct democracy they use in opposition to the rest of the world which uses a superfake democracy where you definately have no say about projects which affect the whole economy of that nation...

 

its a really sad and nasty situation but i honestly dont think that the tibvetian struggle is good... the will to be free is but creating tensions wont help anyone... the utmost goal should be to unite all of mankind under one banner whilst caring for the people in a prolonging way according to kants categorical imperative and not personal gain...

 

all that nationalism might have been good during the 19th or 18th century when there were not many nations around but a bunch of war faring states but nowheredays we should move forward towards the next logical goal... (dont mistake that for the "new world order" idea promoted by the bush family and their lovely friends like the rothshilds)

[billypnats]

I find it weird that people would prefer to not live in cities, especially people like us which have highly values materialism.

 

Without industrialization, we would be living in slavery and hardships

without industrialization, countries can't develop and get picked on by stronger ones, its been happening since the dawn of time

 

 

Why do countries industrialize?

nations industrialize because of us, we were the ones that wanted faster computers, we were the ones that want to drive that big oil drinking hummers, you and other people that "values" human rights, complains about it holding picket signs during parades, and then off to buy more products made by industries that extorts the land.

What are you really doing, nothing, complaining doesn't help, real action has to be taken, doesn't matter good or bad as long as it maintains stability, this is why I'm on the side of the Chinese government, Tibetan parades and rebellions will only make things worse.

 

Tibet is getting loads of chinese citizens with their values, Tibetan extremists or foundamentalists(extremist is not a bad word), reacts to this change with violence, doesn't matter who kills whom first, the goal of the military presence in Tibet is to restore stability.

 

No one in the government cares about how Tibet is a nation with its own unique culture, no one cares about the death of one individual, communism is all about society as a whole, they don't care about tortures in prisons or "concentration camps" or "death camps"

[Guest]

the Tibet crisis is just the Wests way of making china look bad. Take the Palestine struggle. They people here wanted to boycott the Olympics because a Tibet wants independence but nobody says anything to Israel because that's anti- Semitic.The bias media does that about everything.

[jaysus]

look billy you know nothing about how i live, what products i use and so on...

 

in general youre right tho regarding that fact of media distortion and influenced biased opinions which are not reflecting the truth and the resulting "bad" actions by most of the worlds population including young men picking up guns ti murder for the interests of their banks...

 

china has no communism... there never was a real communistic country just some small communities which practiced it seriously... the "goal" of unity would be an honorable one as i said yet but not the way its done... you really cant justify torture and other behavior that defies the human being as a whole for no reason thinkable

 

and chinas government is just as corrupt as any other if not more and thus gives a bloody damn about the country as a whole... and if you read all i wrote youd now see that i see the goal of unity not in national frames but global... nations are of no point anymore in such a globalised world... national law gets overruled regulary by IMF and WTO rules of puppetry wherever you go...

 

governments have no say whatsoever anywhere... its the banks (even in "commie" china), and they give a damn aswell about you and me... they even profit alot from conflicts... who proffited from hitler? not the nazis, not me, not you but the banks and they still pwn extending their influence with every war and killing, every dead and every birth...

or why is it that german banks just got 500.000.000.000 euro for destroying money and creating inflation and the dying in zimbabwe got mere 250k euro? cause our politicans wherever you are are puppets...

 

nations didnt industrialize cause we wanted faster computers... they did so to gain more personel wealth (model T was not about good cars but about price just as example)

and i do in general not oppose industrialization just that its not meant to prolong... you cant uphold the way we extort nature and mankind for ever without the human race going extinct if not the whole planet... and thats the reason i oppose the way its done... kants categorical imperative (just go and look it up i dont like to repeat myself over and over again)

 

also before industry there wasnt just slavery and hardship verywhere... industry has nothing to with that... slavery still exists and even more in the glorified free west... you just dont notice it cause the shackle round your ankle became a credit card/ dollar/ euro (which is a fine tool indeed)

anyway industry exists since biblical times... iraq shows finds of massive iron melting manufacturers who obviously created part of that desert due to the chopped down forests you need to melt ore... today the people starve cause of that... and thats what i call hardship... not you using a i386 instead of a quad cpu pentium

 

infact back in medieval times people were much more free (tiny taxes for example), had enough to live (the irish famine of 18xx was infact the result of heavy industrialisation in agriculture and the use of monocultures instead of traditional style) and the nature was kinda fine compared to today (before 12xx a squirrel could jump from tree to tree from paris to moscow without ever touching ground)...

 

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as to standard of living... there is no need for us to lower that standard at all... we could even give the same standard to every person on the planet! we have the ressources and the manpower to do so... we just dont have the will or at least those in power dont and never had... (xcept ghandi maybe)

theyre all bound in the believe everything needs money even tho thats just a spook

and even if it was about money... take the 500bill. the germ. banks just got and you could buy every person on the planet a nice laptop... 7bil people... everyone gets nearly 100 euro... and thats enough to make a person in egypt live for at leats a month... but they dont care they rather give it some idiots... and us humble peasants making a change is kinda unrealistic even if not impossible (jsut take the tsunami SEAsia had a few years ago... who payed most of the help? peasants... not the banks... the IMF gave CREDITS (which always imply that the country will be ruled bythe banks from there on and get extorted in the worst kind)

 

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but i think that leads a bit offtopic ;)

nevertheless thats the real problem which if solved would nullify the tibet problem

[billypnats]

true, China is no long a true "communist country", BUT its still centralized, and a centralized government can be effective at the top but when big countries like China starts sending down orders, the orders gets distorted step after step down the chain of commandl, when one policeman kills a Tibetan, regardless of why he did it, you can't put responsibility on the entire government. This is why I hate how the west constantly demonizes China by using connotative words and dramatizing everything.

 

Communism doesn't exist, but socialism does, in Maoist ideas, socialism a the first step towards communism, there's a huge different between the two, but now everyone just calls socialism communism, which is why politicians tends to not call themselves socialist (Obama for example, is actually a bit socialist)

 

The world economy needs conflicts to get the economy rolling, we got out of the great depression by going to WWII, or a more recent example Iraq, most people say that Americans steal oil from Iraq, which is only half true because American industries pay for it. There are 150,000 troops in Iraq and 150,000 contractors in Iraq making money off of instabilities within the country (exporting oil, exporting goods, opening factories, etc) The major goal of foreign relations is to make $$$$$$$$. The industries in western societies does that because we want it, do you chew gum? do you drive cars? or take public transits? well those companies are doing what they're doing because we need oil. People protest about how America always get into other countries business, but if I was the president taking the complaint, my answer would be "but Im doing it for you, can average americans last 3 month without driving a car?"

 

Oh well back to the topic of Tibet

The death of of a few monks a tragedy, sure. But once Tibet really starts going into it (like a whole Tibet armed rebellion, which could easily take place if China doesn't do the force and terror thing), its gonna be a major conflict, meaning its gonna be real army man with big guns. One of the reason why Taiwan is scared from Sovereignty is the fact that there's an artillery factor along the other side of the shores. Once major conflicts starts taking place guess what happens? MORE people die, the central government of China thinks the only way to stop a sovereignty on a bigger scale is to respond with force. and if you think about it, that is pretty much the only way to do it in a armed situation (yes Tibetans responded with violence), what will you do? hold an election? plebiscite?

[Ethre]

the Tibet crisis is just the Wests way of making china look bad. Take the Palestine struggle. They people here wanted to boycott the Olympics because a Tibet wants independence but nobody says anything to Israel because that's anti- Semitic.The bias media does that about everything.

 

There are plenty that do. Palestine and Tibet have different complications though. Many also consider Tibet less morally complicated because Tibetan's have, for the most part, been on the receiving end of violence only. Much more violence has come from Palestinians.

 

governments have no say whatsoever anywhere... its the banks (even in "commie" china)

If I remember correctly, the Chinese govt still has majority control in many Chinese banks.

 

Without industrialization, we would be living in slavery and hardships

without industrialization, countries can't develop and get picked on by stronger ones, its been happening since the dawn of time

Industrialization also brought plenty of hardships.

It also didn't stop or reduce war, it simply adjusted the balance of power slightly, to give more influence to more developed countries and slightly less to those who simply had larger populations.

 

when one policeman kills a Tibetan, regardless of why he did it, you can't put responsibility on the entire government.

The reason the policeman was in Tibet, was because of the Chinese invasion. If you view it as a legitimate presence there, then its not the govt's fault. If you view it as an illegitimate, then it is the govt's fault for bringing the policeman there in the first place.

 

One of the reason why Taiwan is scared from Sovereignty is the fact that there's an artillery factor along the other side of the shores.

Both the PRC and the ROC consider themselves the rightful government of China - the other is just a rebel group. Taiwan doesn't want the war, but they also don't want to admit to the PRC as a governing body. Similarly, the PRC doesn't want to risk a larger war or to admit that Taiwan can exist.

 

in general youre right tho regarding that fact of media distortion and influenced biased opinions which are not reflecting the truth and the resulting "bad" actions by most of the worlds population including young men picking up guns ti murder for the interests of their banks...

 

Drama sells

 

most people say that Americans steal oil from Iraq,

 

That's usually because of views regarding the beginning of the war, not the actual situation.

 

what will you do?

Call up Vaultec to reserve my place in the local vault before things go nuclear. :D

[PrideAssassin]

Reason for what?

 

Our support of Tibet, of China? What?

 

I personally think they should have been able to retain their independence.

 

Cheers.

 

My stance on these types of "issues" is simple.

If you cannot maintain your independance or freedom, you do not deserve it.

There are no "rights". They do not exist. The concept exists. Rights do not.

There are only abilities.

For elaboration, see my sig.

=D

[wasder]

Reason for what?

 

Our support of Tibet, of China? What?

 

I personally think they should have been able to retain their independence.

 

Cheers.

 

My stance on these types of "issues" is simple.

If you cannot maintain your independance or freedom, you do not deserve it.

There are no "rights". They do not exist. The concept exists. Rights do not.

There are only abilities.

For elaboration, see my sig.

=D

 

What a horribly skewed view of the world you have there. "Trample the weak" What a nice idea. I won't go into all the arguments against it, but suffice to say, it's very wrong. I disagree massively with what you have said. Everyone deserves their freedom. According to your argument here you support slavery. Nice.

[PrideAssassin]

Reason for what?

 

Our support of Tibet, of China? What?

 

I personally think they should have been able to retain their independence.

 

Cheers.

 

My stance on these types of "issues" is simple.

If you cannot maintain your independance or freedom, you do not deserve it.

There are no "rights". They do not exist. The concept exists. Rights do not.

There are only abilities.

For elaboration, see my sig.

=D

 

What a horribly skewed view of the world you have there. "Trample the weak" What a nice idea. I won't go into all the arguments against it, but suffice to say, it's very wrong. I disagree massively with what you have said. Everyone deserves their freedom. According to your argument here you support slavery. Nice.

 

The only slaves are those who've allowed themselves to become enslaved. Whether or not you support slavery is beside the point. It has always been around and always will be.

Darwin was right.

Survival of the fittest. Disagree all you want. Doesn't change the fact. Accept your monkey nature. =D