Lichdom

[kromey]

Oh that thing looks awesome! It would make a great distant phylactery for the Ancient Lich, however it won't work for the initial lich release (reason being is that this initial release will only feature a wearable phylactery in the form of an amulet).

[KILLERZombie135]

That skull does look epic but im trying to think how you could implement it I get that it could be a distant phylactory

 

I had and idea for the distant phylactory, maybe to keep it safe the lich gives it to a powerful undead minion he/she controls like a skeletal dragon and he would wear it although there are ways you could still use the skull like that.

Edited January 15, 2013 by KILLERZombie135

[kromey]

The distant phylactery, if implemented, will almost certainly be an item the lich will have to keep somewhere; thus the skull would be great, as the lich could place it on display in his favorite player home.

[Zephyr2011]

On swords: While in the renaissance and in more modern times, swords serve as slicing and dicing instruments. Swords of the medieval and viking ages were actually quite blunt and were used more to deliver blunt force trauma than hack off a limb. The idea was to crash against someone's helmet, give their bell a good ring then finish them with by plunging the point into them, preferably after knocking them to the ground. Just to clarify on what the swords would have been like in a realistic medieval scenario. Really, all normal weapons should probably get a bit of a damage boost with most emphasis on stuff like maces and warhammers then axes and then swords (this also keeps the overall damage output somewhat similar as their speeds usually correspond to their damage outputs inversely).

 

On Undead Healing: I believe vampires use the keyword Undead but I'd have to double check, not sure. If undead minions can't be healed conventionally can minions be healed at all? Or is it exclusive to undead? If you have Dawnguard, or someone else here does, you could probably look at what their undead healing spells do and reverse engineer them. I think it's actually a great opportunity for another pathway for the lich to explore. Initially you can only heal yourself via potions so to heal your new form you have to master the arts of repairing your pseudo-metaphysical body. Just another little avenue you could pursue.

 

On the higher lich powers: Personally, I like the thought of ascending tot the highest powers being a tough choice. On the one hand it would make you much more powerful, but on the other it makes it much harder to focus on unrelated aspects. I understand making them like doomstones in a way but I would enjoy a module where it was harder to change and I was kind of thinking like tiers rather than just one power. If you could have them all a little dynamic in how they relate that'd be cool. For example: Amplifying your destruction magic drastically reduces the amount you can climb in say the body fortification tree but makes it easier to ascend in conjuration and alteration magics -to an extent, not as far as you've gotten in destruction- if you fully commit to destruction. If you follow what I'm saying... I could make a diagram to better articulate this. You could also keep the doomstone type idea but just offer an optional plug in where you have to go through a whole long quest or process to change, regardless of how many times you have already done so. Adds to the feeling of weight associated with these higher powers that should make you feel more like a demi-god (which an Ancient Lich should)

[kromey]

On swords: /*snip*/

Oh indeed. However despite being more blunt than what a modern knife is like, the primary method of damage for them is soft tissue damage rather than broken bones.

 

All that being said, though, I think I'm going to backtrack and remove the damage bonus from axes, but keep the bonus to blunt weapons. This makes them more special, and gives the lich more reason to pause before engaging an enemy who wields a mace or a warhammer, as opposed to the other way 'round which would seem to embolden the lich against a sword-wielding enemy rather than making the bonus-damaging weapons something special to be feared.

 

On Undead Healing: I believe vampires use the keyword Undead but I'd have to double check, not sure. If undead minions can't be healed conventionally can minions be healed at all? Or is it exclusive to undead? If you have Dawnguard, or someone else here does, you could probably look at what their undead healing spells do and reverse engineer them. I think it's actually a great opportunity for another pathway for the lich to explore. Initially you can only heal yourself via potions so to heal your new form you have to master the arts of repairing your pseudo-metaphysical body. Just another little avenue you could pursue.

I've taken a peek, and it appears that it is only the targeted healing effects (i.e. those you can target at others) that don't heal undead (via a conditional check for the 'ActorTypeUndead' keyword on the effect itself); the self-healing effects (e.g. Healing) have no such check and so would function on an undead player just fine.

 

I can make an optional file that changes that for immersion purposes, though, if people would like; also, this does open the door to granting the lich a spell that can be used to heal its undead minions.

 

On the higher lich powers: Personally, I like the thought of ascending tot the highest powers being a tough choice. On the one hand it would make you much more powerful, but on the other it makes it much harder to focus on unrelated aspects. I understand making them like doomstones in a way but I would enjoy a module where it was harder to change and I was kind of thinking like tiers rather than just one power. If you could have them all a little dynamic in how they relate that'd be cool. For example: Amplifying your destruction magic drastically reduces the amount you can climb in say the body fortification tree but makes it easier to ascend in conjuration and alteration magics -to an extent, not as far as you've gotten in destruction- if you fully commit to destruction. If you follow what I'm saying... I could make a diagram to better articulate this. You could also keep the doomstone type idea but just offer an optional plug in where you have to go through a whole long quest or process to change, regardless of how many times you have already done so. Adds to the feeling of weight associated with these higher powers that should make you feel more like a demi-god (which an Ancient Lich should)

Oh indeed! In fact I was envisioning tiered paths that take work to unlock. All I meant with the comparison to the doomstones is that starting down one path shouldn't prevent the player from being able to change their mind and start down a different path -- albeit losing all that they've unlocked in the previous path in doing so, of course.

 

In other words, I don't want one decision to force the player to stick with it even if they're not enjoying it, or heck even if they want to just experiment and try something else out.

 

 

And now a quick status update:

All the crafting recipes are done.

The Ritual of Defilation is complete.

(Although neither of those are new updates.)

Common lich bonuses and weaknesses (i.e. those common to both forms) are complete, save the being undead part (although that will be implemented via the final transformation applying the 'ActorTypeUndead' keyword to the player).

 

I've begun experimenting with increasing the number of commanded/summoned actors the player can control, and unfortunately the way Twin Souls is implemented I can't do that without modifying that perk. (It uses the Set Value function at the highest priority, and I haven't found a way yet to override that behavior short of modifying the perk's priority and/or function to something that would play well with another perk modifying the same value.) Instead I'm going to play with other options, such as increasing the level caps on the resurrection spells (can be done via a perk modifying spell magnitude), or even applying some buff to the resurrected actors (similar to Dark Souls granting 100 extra health) (can be done via the Apply Resurrection Spell entry point -- just like Dark Souls does it!). I'm not closed to the idea of modifying Twin Souls, I just know that there's a lot of mods out there that modify that perk in particular for various reasons, and I'd prefer to remain compatible with them...

[kromey]

I've updated the OP again to reflect my most current plans, as well as added itemized development status!

[jack013]

Perhaps you should add a 'chance' at doing massive damage, instead of just a flat rate weakness.

 

also, since I assume you can't be a lich-werewolf 'cause hircine probably hates undead things, maybe you should hijack the entire werewolf system.

[skulleris]

Perhaps you should add a 'chance' at doing massive damage, instead of just a flat rate weakness.

 

also, since I assume you can't be a lich-werewolf 'cause hircine probably hates undead things, maybe you should hijack the entire werewolf system.

I doubt that Hircine HATES undead, the only daedric prince that hates them is Meridia that *censored*

But i don't see how a lich could become a werewolf, mostly because that would require you to contract a disease which you as a corpse really can't,

 

However i don't know how it would be if a werewolf became a lich.

[Nereidian]

http://i.imgur.com/GgbKI.jpg?1

 

Just a quick, photoshopped img of my idea of how a Phylactery could look

 

Nice, this looks pretty darn awesome!

[kromey]

Perhaps you should add a 'chance' at doing massive damage, instead of just a flat rate weakness.

Frankly, that would be considerable extra effort, I believe, as that would require creating a script to fire every time the lich is struck by a blunt weapon; and the benefit would be minimal at best. As well as it would be inconsistent with all other vulnerabilities in the game, all of which do a set amount (or set percentage) of extra damage on every attack.

 

Don't be discouraged that I'm not running with this idea, though -- if you've got more keep throwing them out there, there's bound to be others I'll like!

 

also, since I assume you can't be a lich-werewolf 'cause hircine probably hates undead things, maybe you should hijack the entire werewolf system.

Depending on how it is implemented in the game, then you're right, you can't become a lich-werewolf, although not because of Hircine -- as a lich you have complete immunity to diseases, so if lycanthropy is indeed implemented as a disease in the game you won't be able to become a werewolf. (I suspect, however, that owing to it being a quest ritual that the mechanics of the game aren't used quite as described, and I suspect that a lich could indeed complete the quest and become a werewolf. If I decide this is an issue, I won't be addressing it until after the initial release, though.)

 

However, nothing is stopping you from becoming a werewolf-lich! Just make sure you do the Companions questline and become a werewolf first, then turn yourself into a lich, fur (hehe, I made a punny!) the ultimate in game-breaking brokenness! :thumbsup:

 

A lich would not be able to become a vampire, however, as that does require contracting an actual disease (Sanguinare Vampiris), which as a lich you are immune to. I'll have to make a note to myself to ensure that the Ritual of Becoming (the final transformation into a lich) won't let already-undead characters (i.e. vampires) become liches.