Why you should join the Stormcloaks.

[Giagun]

That is what happens when you lose a war, you have to make comprises. The Thalmor are also not kidnapping because it is part of the treaty that they can get rid of Talos Worshippers and the Empire has made it against the law.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure you meant the Empire because you argued against the fact I said the Stormcloaks were racist and you said the High Elves "of the Empire" were just as racist. Also to be fair not all the High Elves or even the Aldmeri Dominion is racist, The Thalmor are, they are just a group that took the power during the Oblivion crisis.

 

If you didn't mean the Empire is just as racist, why are you arguing against me? I was arguing that they weren't racist and it was the Thalmor in the first place.

[Lachdonin]

I said the High Elves are Racist not the Empire.

 

If you hadn't noticed the empire can't seem to do anything without the Approval of the Thalmor an Example you do the peace meeting between the EMPIRE and STORMCLOAKS and who is right there demanding they be allowed to participate?........If you guess Thalmor you are correct and get a cookie if not then go sit in the corner.

 

Thalmor have conducted "purges" of the Wood Elves in the past and you can bet they are not inviting them over for tea and crackers they also secretly Kidnap Nords in Skyrim "which is EMPIRE territory" who they believe to be Worshiping Talos. Personal Experience on this one, I got attacked by a band of Thalmor on the road because one of them believed I was a Talos Worshiper so they may not be a part of the Empire but they are the ones in control not the Imperial Emperor.

 

The Thalmor are permitted access to things like the Peace Summet because the Empire has treaty obligations to uphold. Foreign dignitaries sit in on negotiations all the time to ensure treates aren't violated in the process. Their presence, and involvement with negotiations, does not mean the Empire is bending over backwards for them. Likewise, the rounding up and torturing of Imperial Citizens in secret is almost certianly a treaty violation, but confronting the Thalmor about it requires proof, which the Empire doesn't have. The Thalmor are very good at being sneaky.

 

The Justicar squads are a similar situation to the Talos Ban, prior to the Markarth incedent. The Domminion certianly knew the Empire wasn't enforcing its treaty obligations, but until Ulfric kicked up a fuss they had no proof. Presented with proof of the Thalmor's action, you can be rather sure the Empire would throw the Justicars out, but a nation can not, ethically, act on intuition and rumours.

[Kanarus]

That is what happens when you lose a war, you have to make comprises. The Thalmor are also not kidnapping because it is part of the treaty that they can get rid of Talos Worshippers and the Empire has made it against the law.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure you meant the Empire because you argued against the fact I said the Stormcloaks were racist and you said the High Elves "of the Empire" were just as racist. Also to be fair not all the High Elves or even the Aldmeri Dominion is racist, The Thalmor are, they are just a group that took the power during the Oblivion crisis.

 

If you didn't mean the Empire is just as racist, why are you arguing against me? I was arguing that they weren't racist and it was the Thalmor in the first place.

 

Basically the Ambasador(s) to the Empire from the High Elves are nothing but overseers for the actions of the empire I said The "High Elf Overseers" of the empire meaning they are not apart of the empire but they are the ones in control.

 

Think of the Thalmor ambassador(s) as Prison Guards and the empire is the prison if that helps or I could be suffering from a severe lack of caffeine and not making any sense at all. :wallbash:

[Giagun]

That still makes the Stormcloaks worse in the racism department because they aren't under control of anyone and are racist because they want to be.

 

Although in all honesty neither the Thalmor, Empire, or the Nords have any rightful "claim" to Skyrim because they aren't native. So really just pick your poison. It's like the French, Spanish, and British fighting over North America in the colonial days.

[Lachdonin]

That still makes the Stormcloaks worse in the racism department because they aren't under control of anyone and are racist because they want to be.

 

Although in all honesty neither the Thalmor, Empire, or the Nords have any rightful "claim" to Skyrim because they aren't native. So really just pick your poison. It's like the French, Spanish, and British fighting over North America in the colonial days.

 

Men have a greater claim over it than Elves, as Men were created in Skyrim, either by Kyne or Lorkhan (no ones really sure which). You could argue that the Mer, being descendants of the Aldmer, have claim because their ancestors contributed to the creation of Skyrim, but then you would hvae a conflict between those whos ancestors created, vs those whose ancestors were created in.

 

As for the North America thing... The so called 'natives' had no more claim to nativity than second generation colonists. They came, settled and conquored when nessessary, so did the Europeans. Right of conquest works both ways, but at the end of the day everyone in North America is an immagrant.

[Giagun]

That is not what my Lore sources say. It says Men first originated in other continents such as Atmora and migrated to Skyrim via sea even Nords. It also states that Mer did a similar thing but did so long before any men arrived in Tamirel. It also says that the original life forms on Tamirel were the Hist which the Argoanions come from. The Khaijit became present after that.

[Lachdonin]

That is not what my Lore sources say. It says Men first originated in other continents such as Atmora and migrated to Skyrim via sea even Nords. It also states that Mer did a similar thing but did so long before any men arrived in Tamirel. It also says that the original life forms on Tamirel were the Hist which the Argoanions come from. The Khaijit became present after that.

 

The event (in regards to men) which you refer to is the 'Return'. The earlier events took place during the Dawn Era, before reality had really solidified. The Et'ada created the world, with some becomming trapped due to the loss of their power. Some of those trapped became the Earth Bones, others became the Aldmer. Men were created somewhere in Skyrim (the Nors beleive it was at the Throat of the World) and fought alongside Lorkhan when the Aldmer and the 8 Divines turned on him (cause he was kinda the reason they were all god-neutered). Following Lorkhan's defeat, the early men were moved, or fled, to other parts of Nirn, though presumably the Nedic people remained on Tamriel. This all happened before the Mereithic, mind you, so it's mostly constrained to mythic cycles and meta comments made by the developers.

[TPA5]

This topic has turned into a fascinating discussion, I really enjoy it (Well, I enjoy the in-character discussion. Bringing Hitler and other modern dictators into Skyrim chat isn't very enjoyable to me).

 

It inspired me to write an in-character essay, as lore-friendly as I could make it, to bring to light some issues that have arisen and questions that have come about as I ponder the Aldmeri Dominion and their grander plans for Tamriel. Check it here: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/872765-civil-war-in-skyrim-a-bigger-picture/

[Giagun]

Do you have any references to this I could look at Lachdonin? Edited January 1, 2013 by Giagun

[Lachdonin]

Do you have any references to this I could look at Lachdonin?

 

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept

 

That deals, somewhat, with the nature of the Aldmeri and the historical non-basis for Aldmeris.

 

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/monomyth

 

There are some of the mythic origin stories.

 

Finding meta-universe commends made by the developers, particularly Kirkbride, tends to be a little trickier... Sajuukkar is the real expert and digging THOSE goodies up.