Why you should join the Stormcloaks.

[jhncanson]

The Developers of TES online is not Bethesda.. so unless those 2 company worked something out to align their lore.. we will see the end of an empire.. a hint in skyrim darkbrother hood questline " to kill an empire ". I still do think the empire will not last long.. i think the states of tamriel will free themselves, for as long as the people keep on fighting.. the aldmeri can never truly conquer tamriel.. just look what happened to spanish/british colonies, but either way the empire thrives or not.. it will still be a good storyline for another DLC or TES franchise..

[Giagun]

I know it's not Bethesda but it is still licensed by them and takes place in the actual storyline, 1000 years before Skyrim. I'm sure Bethesda just isn't going to let a company do whatever they want with their franchise.

[jhncanson]

I know it's not Bethesda but it is still licensed by them and takes place in the actual storyline, 1000 years before Skyrim. I'm sure Bethesda just isn't going to let a company do whatever they want with their franchise.

 

you did not tell me.. TES online is based on a timeline 1000 years before skyrim.. the empires had not existed by that time.. Have you played skyrim with dawnguard dlc?

 

at first meeting with serana.. she mentioned.. at her time.. there were no empire.. it was just them.. lord harkon and his court that ruled over vast lands(assuming the whole skyrim area)...

 

 

EDIT: and as ive read.. the main antagonist is molag bal.. which directly connects with the dawnguard plot.. thousands of years ago.. lord harkon was a very powerful ruler.. he owned vast amounts of lands..he feared nothing.. but his mortality.. so he offered thousands of innocents to molag bal and themselves.. and those who emerged became pure-blood vampires.. It was actually done in the summoning day.. so there is a chance... we will actually see the old lord harkon in TES online.

Edited January 1, 2013 by jhncanson

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

The " Empire " is dead, and there is nothing but
war in their future, and eventually my guess is that the Thalmor will be the
one's he finally dies too. I've played through the campaign 7 times now, 6
times as an Imperial, and frankly, I knew at the end of the first six that no
matter what, I had fought a lost cause. Win or Lose, no Nordic Legions will
ever be what they once were. Nords won't support the Empire as they have in the
past, and the Nords were really the Empire's last place to draw troops from.
The Imperials can't win against the Thalmor with just their own Imperial
Soldiers. With Skyrim in Chaos, and it still is long after the War is over if
you're an Imperial, they simply cannot field Nordic troops the way they once
could. There is no winning for the Imperials, however there is for the Nords.
The only Nation of the Empire that -can't- resist a full on invasion by the
Thalmor is Cyrodil itself. Hammerfell managed it, so could Skyrim, it's only
Cyrodil that has lost too much in power, prestige, etc. to fail to resist. As
they failed to resist without the Redguard and Nord Legions during the Great
War that led to this mess.

 

Tullius may be a
pragmatist, but he's no humanitarian. He wants Skyrim because Skyrim equals
more men and women for the Legion, and without Skyrim Cyrodil has no chance.
All he sees is power, not people, and he's willing to throw people's lives away
just to protect his home. If you want ultimate Rascism look at the way the
Imperial Steward mocks even Jarl Balgruuf at the beginning, look at how Tullius
treats his own second in command because she's a Nord.

 

He doesn't see the
Nords as anything more than power he can project, they are barely human in his
eyes, and he'll throw their lives away for the sake of the " Empire "
the Imperials are the ultimate racists here, as you said they are pragmatists.
Meaning they'll mock, but still " support " any race that will help
give them more power.

 

Just read the history
from the end of the Oblivion Crisis till The Great War and you'll see what I
mean.

 

Ulfric may be openly
racist against Dunmer, and against Argonians. His supporters may be old men,
but there is often a wisdom in the old men who remember the old ways, even if
their hearts have grown old and bitter. The Imperials hide their racism, so they
can feel superior for it, but at the end of the day they see other races as
something to be used for their own power, not as actual people, with actual
feelings.

 

If you play through
the game as an Imperial you see the unfeeling callousness of Tullius's attitude
towards each Jarl he replaces, in contrast you can see that Ulfric sees each
Jarl he replaces as a deeply unfortunate necessity. He takes them one at a
time, respects their words even if he disagrees with them. He treats them as
people, not as chess pieces.

 

He's an honest
racist, Tullius is a dishonest one. It's a comparison often made between the
Germanic People's towards the end of the Roman Empire, and the Romans
themselves. The Romans always felt superior ( look at the way they "
honored " other cultures by deciding whether or not they could be Roman
Citizens. For a province of the Roman Empire, citizenship had to be earned
where those born in Rome were born with it ). It's the worst type of Racism in
my book the " I have black friends " type, even though you've never
had those friends over to your house.

 

That's just how it
is, not since the Septim's has anything like mutual respect come out of the
Imperial City, the Redguards saw it, The Bosmer Saw it, The Khajiit saw it, The
Bretons saw it, and now Skyrim sees it. Ask yourself this, considering how many
provinces in the last 20 years have broken away from the Empire why is it that
Skyrim is so important? Why is Skyrim more important than Hammerfell, or High
Rock, or Elsywer, or Valenwood? I'll tell you why, because the Nords are the
backbone of the Imperial Legion, and the Empire can't afford to lose them. They
aren't concerned about Skyrim as a place, they're concerned about Skyrim as a
resource.

 

Sounds like Corporate
America right before AIG and Global Crossing tanked the economy if you ask me.

 

In my mind the Imperials are betraying the Empire by
outlawing Talos worship. Talos was, after all, Tiber Septim, the founder of the
Empire.

 

Of course the current
Imperial House is the Mede, and they wouldn't mind as bad if the Septim's went
down, but considering every game before now you were helping out the Septim's,
not the Mede's, there is a distinction. Being an Imperial who's in favor of the
Talos ban is not being an Imperial, it's being someone who's willing to throw
away the greatest Emperor you ever had. Honestly they could have given away
Skyrim entirely and not disgusted me more than the ban on Talos worship. It
isn't a Nord God, it's the Father of the Empire.

 

To give you an idea,
can you imagine Imperial Rome ever Un-deifying Julius Caesar? They didn't even
when they made the state religion Christianity (They sainted him, but same
thing when you're switching from a poly-theistic to a mono-theistic). They'd
rather have watched the Empire crumble than to deny Caesar. I've said it
before, without Caesar there is no Roman Empire. Without Tiber Septim (Talos)
there is no Empire.

 

The second the Mede's
were willing to ban Talos worship, was the exact instance that the Empire died.
Everything since then has been after-shocks, Hammerfell defeated the Thalmor on
its own, Skyrim can too, and for once the Imperials will have to take care of
themselves. If they can.

 

I apologize for the odd format. My computer is acting strange.

[GarglingGlass]

I personally don't like Ulfric.

Just like what's-his-nuts says in the opening sequence, "Imperial towers used to make me feel so safe..." Well, until you joined a power hungry rebel leader who murdered the high king. I can understand animosity over the Aldmeri's involvement, but the Imperials have no love loss for them either, and know the difference between diplomacy and "means to an end" than, "I don't like that my country isn't run and occupied by one sole race so I'm going to take the throne for myself!" So they beat the Imperials, take back Skyrim, then what? Does that mean the Aldmeri Dominion is going to butt out? NOOOO it only weakened Skyrim and a few viking barbarians couldn't possibly match their unbridled domination (and this is coming from someone who high elves). The Imperial Legion makes it no secret that they plan on reclaiming their human glory from the pious high elves and a little human support could go a long way.

I killed Ulfic with a smile on my face. But that was only after my 4th playthrough that I even made the civil war my business (and was still disappointed by the quests)...

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

At least Ulfric has the guts to fight for his country, to
the end if need be.

 

That's the point, if
it's worth fighting for it's worth fighting for to the end, and Ulfric
represents that, not TMII, not Tullius, and Certainly not The Empire.

 

Analogies all made
and set straight, I see no problems with them. Reasons set straight, I feel
that they are all valid and well reasoned, history set straight, I've cited
where to find the information I've given. As far as I know I haven't missed
anything. Stormcloaks are Skyrim's best chance, if you want Skyrim to survive
pick them, if you care more about the survival of Cyrodil ( and with it the
" Empire " which is just Cyrodil and Skyrim at this point, it's only
an Empire if they hold onto Skyrim ) then side with the Imperials.

 

That's just how the
facts fall down, and the player can make their choice about who the better
leader is, Ulfric or TMII, and which leader is most likely to protect the most
people and drive the Thalmor from their lands. TMII has already let the people
down once, and once is too many. It is my opinion, based on facts, that the
Empire couldn't withstand a full Thalmor attack even if they win in Skyrim, but
anything is possible I guess. It is also my opinion that the success that Hammerfell
and the Redguards achieved against the Thalmor could be repeated in Skyrim, and
I find it much more likely than any attempt the Empire could make at defeating
them. I can think of no way in which Skyrim would be better off with the
Empire, and I can think of plenty of ways that it couldn't.

 

Bigger picture, for
Skyrim, independence is the best option.

 

That's the end
decision the Dragonborn must make. To chance it with the Empire or to take what
I think is the option more likely to succeed against the Thalmor and side with
Skyrim Independence.

[GarglingGlass]

And like I said, unbridled with no Imperial sympathy, support or diplomacy, the Aldmeri Dominion could and would wipe every Nord off the map, like it or not.

 

The reason the "dragonborn" would succeed against the Aldmeri is that if the game was made with the purpose to topple them. Unfortunately, the lore is not stacked in his favor, or even makes it an option. The Imperion Legion is the only thing standing between Skyrim and the dominion as it is.

Edited February 12, 2013 by GarglingGlass

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

Thats funny because if you actually read the Great War, in the game, it states that the Nord legions suffered minimal losses during the fight against the Dominion. The Nords are physically more capable than the elves and are known as great warriors. They have more will (A LOT MORE) to fight than the Imperials. And if the Empire wins in Skyrim they dont just get more Nords to fight for them. They just f*cking killed them all. Obviously Nords and elves have struggled in the past and Tamriel is the land where the final war of Men against Mer takes place. Nords are Men. The Aldmeri Dominion represents Mer. 1 Nord = 5 Elves. Edited February 12, 2013 by Stormcloak117

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

The Legion is keeping its people from being free.

 

I did a comparison with the Empire of Today vs The Empire
during the time of the Septim's using relatively modern times and events as
analogies. I think those analogies were lost on a lot of people, but one of the
things I did mention was " If the UK had caved to Nazi Germany, and then
banned the Scottish Presbyterian Church, and then allowed the SS into Scotland
to drag off anyone who practiced Scottish Presbyterianism without trial or
notice never to be heard from again, most people would be behind Scotland if
they Rebelled under those circumstances, and be appalled if the UK in response
to the Rebellion attempted to put it down with British Troops "

 

I think that
statement was lost on most people with the UK being the Empire, Nazi Germany
being the Dominion, the Church being Talos Worship, and the SS being the
Thalmor. I also pointed out in that analogy that Scotland ( or anyone ) would
follow a guy who cut off people's faces and wore then as a hat, if that guy
could liberate them from the SS and by proxy the British Troops. I think for
the most part this is true, in case of point William Wallace used to make belts
out of straps of skin from the English Soldiers he killed, and he's a Scottish
Hero, so I'm not too far off the mark there.

 

I also pointed out
that compared to a guy who cuts off people's faces and wears them as a hat,
Ulfric isn't that bad.

 

I really do think I'm
spot on with my analogies, and still stand by them, but it is a sad sad thing
to see. The Empire is dead, and TMII is responsible, and there is no going
back. If the UK in my analogy had done what in the analogy I said it had done,
there would be no UK today. We all know it, and honestly we'd be glad it was
gone, look at it as a horrible relic of the past, an institution that deserved
to die and in it's last moments broke apart like a rotten melon. No one living
today would have blamed the Scots for rebelling nor supported the British
actions of invading and occupying Scotland to put down the Rebellion.

 

So why would people
support the Empire who has done exactly that? If the Empire is the UK in my
analogy, and all the pieces I just brought up are accurate ( and they are, no
one's argue'd that yet ) then why would anyone support the Empire? That's what
it really came down to for me, and the saddest part about it is that it didn't have
to be that way. Titus Mede II killed the Empire, and I don't mean "
Wounded Badly " I mean killed. No one can bring it back from the death
blow he gave it.

 

In Britain's Darkest
hour Winston Churchill said " We'll Fight on the Beaches, We'll Fight in
the Streets, We'll Fight in the Hills, We'll Fight on the Seas, We'll Fight
with growing confidence in the Air, We'll Never Surrender! And should the day
come when the Shores of Britain feel the boot of the Gestapo then from our
Colonies and our Territories we shall fight on until Tyranny is put down,
perhaps for years, perhaps alone. So I do not fear, nor shy from the coming
conflict for should our Empire last for another thousand years, let men say
that this was their greatest hour "

 

Not a direct quote
but close enough.

 

Titus Mede II said
" Thank you sir may I have another "

 

Britain's Darkest
hour was much much Darker then the Empire's Darkest hour, and you simply can't
come back from " Thank you sir may I have another " it just doesn't
happen that way, once you make a mistake of that magnitude the entirety of the
system upon which your institution was based " The Strength and Majesty of
the Empire " is evaporated. Illusion makes reality, and you can't undo the
past. You're absolutely right when you say that the Empire has already started
" The 8 Divines " thing, and with it Talos can never come back into
the fold, never fully, never again. That alone changed the Empire forever, and
really that alone was enough to break it, even without the shameful cowardly
actions of TMII.

 

The problem is that
once it's done... it's done. The Empire was broken not upon the sword but upon
the pen, the pen that was held in that rancid -Mede- hand ( long live the
Septim's Martin we miss you so much ) when it signed the White-Gold Concordant.
It cannot be mended no matter how long a person labored, nor how strong they
were. It's terribly sad to see, and damnit if it isn't almost heart breaking.

 

That's part of the
tragic beauty of the story though. I think in Arena we saw the beginning of the
Empire, It's Growth in Hammerfell, we saw it's golden age in Morrowind, it's
decline in Oblivion and now I think we're witnessing it's death. We've come
full circle, and it's hard to watch a good friend die. I know that I grit my teeth
and a good reason I held to the pro-imperial side of it for so long was simply
because I couldn't let it die, not if I could help it, not on my watch, no no
no... until I realized I was attempting to give CPR to someone who was already
gone. It was only then, when I realized my good friend was dead, that I had to
look up and see that not all hope is lost, that there are other people who need
my help, that Skyrim can be saved at least, that the Thalmor do not yet control
the world, that there is still hope ( Thank you Hammerfell for showing us that
) and while we lost a good friend when the Empire died, it does not mean we
cannot move on and hold fast against the Evil of the Genocidal Dominion or
Daedric Princes or anything else that should fall into our path.

 

The journey of The
Elder Scrolls is bigger that that we sometimes forget, that Tamriel isn't just
a series of lands and cultures, kings and emperors, races and monsters, or Gods
and Daedra. It's a land of Ideas, its' a land of Hero's, it's a land where one
person can make a difference.

 

So while my good
friend the Empire is dead, The Elder Scrolls continue on, and will always
continue on, and not even the Divines or the Princes can stop that ( and if
you're a long time fan like most of us we all know they've tried pretty hard to
) so hope remains. The actions of the player politically? I side with the
Stormcloaks. Ethically I stand against the Dominion. Morally I stand for the
eternal laws of The Elder Scrolls.

[GarglingGlass]

I've often looked at Nords as being Scots assuming the empire was English (or any other group of people the English has since rested their "emperor" favor on and been reduced to an island of consumer hipsters which might as well be considered part of New England). Obviously the legion is meant to mirror the Romans, which in the past the British have tried to emulate. You're right, these "peon" nations have brought them down to nothing since, but which Elder Scroll lore introduces advancements like guns and the founding of America?