Neravarine = Champion of Cyrodiil = Dragonborn?

[Tank0123]

"One, all of these, and none at the same time."

 

For those of us that played through the main storylines of Morrowind, Oblivion, and of course Skyrim, I have a rather preposterous theory likely to make your head spin.

 

So in Morrowind, Neravarine defeats Dagoth Ur, destroys the Tribunal, etc. What happens in between, though, is probably the most important part of the theory. Nera is infected with the deadly Corprus disease, only to have it's negative effects removed, but effectively making him ageless (though not necessarily immortal).

 

In Oblivion, we hear rumors that the Neravarine went missing on an expedition to Akavir. Now, Morrowind only takes place a few years before Oblivion, and the date in which the Neravarine goes missing is not explicitly stated (it's quite possible he could have gone missing months or even years before the rumor occurs; after all, the Neravarine is not well known outside of Morrowind and rumors take time to travel).

 

In Oblivion, the future Hero of Kvatch/Champion of Cyrodiil starts off the game in a prison cell; there's a few red flags with this situation.

1) No one, not even the Blades, the Emperor, or the prisoner himself seems quite certain as to why he is there (ie what he did).

2) The prisoner is a cell that is supposed to be off-limits for the use of the freaking Emperor of Tamriel. How could the security of the Imperial Prison have missed this?

 

Well, he's the damn Neravarine, that's why. Prophecy or what have you -- it doesn't matter, make it up if you want.

 

So then there's explaining how the Neravarine got there. At this point, though, it's just conjecture; perhaps he was teleported there by the Divines, or Azura, his memory and skills erased somehow. Or perhaps he did come back from Akavir, but unnoticed, perhaps hoping to start a new life for him/herself. Yes, I hate the guesswork involved, but it's not like any of this is ever explained anyway.

 

So anyway, the Hero saves Tamriel, does stuff, etc -- "but wait! Doesn't the Champion of Cyrodiil become Sheogorath?" I'll get to that in a minute.

 

As you all know, Skyrim is set 200 years after the events of Oblivion. Whether or not the Neravarine/CoC/now-Dragonborn is an elf or not and therefore prone to a long life span is moot; if you recall, the Neravarine contracted Corprus, and as such can live forever (though is not immortal to, say, a blade).

 

So somehow, for some reason, this now long-lived Neravarine/CoC is going to Skyrim. And apparently, s/he's also Dragonborn. But of course, we'd never know this in the previous games because there were no dragons.

 

Now, to the holes in my theory:

 

1) Sheogorath. Canonically, CoC is Sheogorath -- so why, in Skyrim, is he the same goatee'd Scottish wacko we meet in Oblivion? More than that, how could CoC then be theoretically meeting himself?

2) Why are the Hero's skills constantly reset, even though he should be ungodly powerfully by now?

3) Why wouldn't Azura, Hircine, etc. recognize the Neravarine/CoC/Dragonborn as the hero from ages long past? This goes especially for Azura, who guided the Neravarine throughout Morrowind.

 

I'll explain all of these holes away with the concept of the Dragon Break. You see, theoretically each Hero could be at the top of (nearly) every organization in their respective installment -- or they could be a part of NO organization. Every action that is dictated by player choice ultimately results in a Dragon Break -- that is, every outcome occurring at once. That's part of the reason why I wouldn't say that the Agent from Daggerfall would be a part of this theory; in one of the endings, he dies. In all of the subsequent endings, however, the Neravarine, CoC, etc presumably live. During the Warp in the West from Daggerfall, the Totem of Tiber Septim is simultaneously given to every possible party and thus resulting in every possible ending at once.

 

How does this relate to the N=C=B theory (as I will call it)?

 

Well, Neravarine could have theoretically been a mage. Or warrior. Or thief. In the end, all outcomes are represented in the next game(s) in a way, by representing no ending at all. You see, Neravarine/CoC make no reference to who they are in the next game because due to the Dragon Break, it is almost like they are being "reborn" -- they have no record of their previous identity, nor do they have any of their previous skills. In a sense, they are either "relearning" everything they once knew, or learning that which they did no know before.

 

As for Sheogorath -- again, Dragon Break. The Champion is the Madgod while he simultaneously is not. Thus, it's almost like the Sheogorath of Skyrim is a reflection of himself -- or just the way the Champion/Neravarine/DB most remembers Sheogorath as being. I mean, he IS the Madgod -- is it really so far fetched to consider that Sheogorath is in fact just a composition of the Champion's/Neravarine's memory? Like some form of Split personality? Regardless, the Champion doesn't even have to be the Madgod -- it could be anyone else, and therefore he really is seeing Sheogorath. Dragon Break! ;)

 

One final note on Sheogorath -- he says he hands off the title of Sheogorath "from me to myself". Sure, this is in reference to the Greymarch, Jygglag, etc. But could it not also be in reference to the fact that maybe, as a Daedric Prince, the Champion really did hand it off to "himself" in the sense that he let his Madgod personality break away? Just another possible explanation for the pile.

 

Azura and the other divine beings might not recognize the Neravarine/Champion because, in all reality, they are not completely omnipotent (such is the case with multiple gods, which is almost paradoxical in and of itself), and with all these Dragon Breaks going on, I doubt that the Neravarine/Champion/DB would likely recognize himself after everything.

 

Consider the case of the Tribunal. They were once just mortals -- elves like any other. But when they tapped into the power of the Heart of Lorkhan, they essentially became "gods" -- albeit, they had to continuously rejuvenate their powers at the Heart and were eventually killed by the Neravarine when they were crippled by their "starvation" by Dagoth Ur. The point is that they "wrote themselves into the fabric of time", so that essentially they were always present, like the rest of the divine beings, at the creation of Mundus. So in a way, they were always "divine", as even the Daedric princes recognized them as such. But logic would dictate that they were once mortal -- can one say? I contend that this is a bit like a Dragon Break, or something similar.

 

When the Hero caused all these Dragon Breaks, he both knew Azura and the other beings he had met and did not know them. It is like, through altering the course of history so radically, the Hero almost wrote himself into an infinite number of roles. That is, s/he is Neravarine, the Champion, the Dragonborn -- all these things at once and none of them at the same time. Yes, I'm delving into the metaphysical here, but...there it is.

 

So theoretically, the Neravarine could be the Champion of Cyrodiil who could be Sheogorath who could be the Dragonborn. One, all of these, and none at the same time.

 

Refute as you see fit. I'm not saying it's canon, but considering that the Dragon Break concept was developed as a retcon for Daggerfall to Morrowind, I don't see why it couldn't be canon. When it comes to the Elder Scrolls, I would say that everything and nothing you see is canon. And that's the beauty of it, I guess.

[Lachdonin]

I think you have the right idea, but wrong details.

 

First, Sheogorath is still Sheogorath because the CoC mantled him. Through Mantling, a mortal walks in the footsteps of a divine being (usually one of the Aedra, Sheogorath is the only case i know of with an Daedra) and is totally suffused with the nature of said Et'ada. The CoC ceased to be by becomming Sheogorath, even as Sheogorath became Jyggalag. Mantling is kind of confusing...

 

Anyway, i do beleive that the CoC, Nerevarine, Dragonborn and Blades Agent (even Cyrus and the other Adventures characters) are all the same 'thing', though not the same person. They all appear at times when there is a monumental decision to be made regarding the fate of the world, and the decision is totally in their hands. They are agents of destiny, forced to stand against something by the nature of reality its self, even if the final outcome of their confrontation isn't set beforehand. They are agents of different gods or powers from game to game, almost certianly all touched by Lorkhan, but not really bound by any uniform loyalty or support of either Aedra or Daedra.

 

To me, then, they are the absolute expression of The Elder Scrolls themselves. One Over-Soul reborn time and time again to turn the page from one chapter to the next. In the same way that Lorkhan projected himself through Ysmir, Zurin, Talos and many others, the Scrolls interact with Mundus through the PC's of the games.

[Tank0123]

I figured it might have a lot to do with CHIM and the Godhead, or something similar. In the way you have described, perhaps each of these "agents of fate" are just avatars, manifestations of the "sleeping god".

 

It did occur to me just now; it seems that whenever one of these characters begins his/her journey in one game, the previous character promptly disappears. When the new characters pop up, like the Dragonborn or the Champion of Cyrodiil, no real reason or background is given for their precise appearance at a very fateful event.

 

So then you are truly right. Even though the actual Elder Scrolls have played very little, if any part in the series prior to Skyrim, it seems that perhaps these characters are like physical manifestations of the scrolls themselves.

[omega549]

I always thought they were Shezarrines, aspects containing some amount of Lorkhan, using whatever power this dead god has to create an avatar on Nirn to protect what it created. Whether they are simply people selected and infused with this power, and teleported to the needed location, or simply created, is unknowningable. With the aspect of Lorkhan, it can explain how the Player can accomplish everything they do so fast. How the heal with damage, learn skills incredibely fast, defeat every enemy, and generally excell at nearly everything without any explained reason.

 

So while they arent the same person, there might be a possible link between each, as aspects of Lorkhan.

 

Strangely though, there must have been many individuals throughout Nirns history with this power, as only the CoC and Dragonborn have stopped "world ending" scenarios, imo.

 

Morrowind, Arena, and Daggerfall more focused on political (daggerfall and Arena) and regional dangers (morrowind) which, regardless of the games conclusion wouldn't have lead to Nirns destruction, only alteration. All the great events in history that mirror these games impact, Alessian Revolt, Talos unifying the empire, the 500 Companions, etc, have someone who is credited as a Shezarrine. These events are easily as dramatic and far reaching as Daggerfall, Arena, and Morrowind's main quest, so these individuals have to be atleast as powerful as the playable characters involved. Therefore they all, player characters and main persons from these events, can qualify as shezarrines simply by their titantic contributions.

 

More importantly, the characters in all the games appear relatively equal in their potential prowess, reagardless of what great cataclysim they prevented. they are interchangeable, ie, the Nerevarine could possibely replaced the Dragonborn and accomplished the same things, being simply an aspect of Shor, so sharing the same characteristics and potential. same with all the Heroes that have appeared in the games so far.

[Glion]

Oh so you mean that a Corprus spreading immortal god was NOT a end of the world threat omega549? I'm sorry, but if Dagoth Ur succeded with his plans, who knows what would have happended to Nirn...

[Tank0123]

I always thought they were Shezarrines, aspects containing some amount of Lorkhan, using whatever power this dead god has to create an avatar on Nirn to protect what it created. Whether they are simply people selected and infused with this power, and teleported to the needed location, or simply created, is unknowningable. With the aspect of Lorkhan, it can explain how the Player can accomplish everything they do so fast. How the heal with damage, learn skills incredibely fast, defeat every enemy, and generally excell at nearly everything without any explained reason.

 

So while they arent the same person, there might be a possible link between each, as aspects of Lorkhan.

 

Strangely though, there must have been many individuals throughout Nirns history with this power, as only the CoC and Dragonborn have stopped "world ending" scenarios, imo.

 

Morrowind, Arena, and Daggerfall more focused on political (daggerfall and Arena) and regional dangers (morrowind) which, regardless of the games conclusion wouldn't have lead to Nirns destruction, only alteration. All the great events in history that mirror these games impact, Alessian Revolt, Talos unifying the empire, the 500 Companions, etc, have someone who is credited as a Shezarrine. These events are easily as dramatic and far reaching as Daggerfall, Arena, and Morrowind's main quest, so these individuals have to be atleast as powerful as the playable characters involved. Therefore they all, player characters and main persons from these events, can qualify as shezarrines simply by their titantic contributions.

 

More importantly, the characters in all the games appear relatively equal in their potential prowess, reagardless of what great cataclysim they prevented. they are interchangeable, ie, the Nerevarine could possibely replaced the Dragonborn and accomplished the same things, being simply an aspect of Shor, so sharing the same characteristics and potential. same with all the Heroes that have appeared in the games so far.

 

Interesting, I'd heard of Shezzar (and therefore Shezarrine) before but never paid much attention to it. I seriously hope they go more into the lore of Lorkhan and Shezarr in later installments.

[Lachdonin]

Lorkhan/Shezzar/Shor are all the same god... Talos. Lorkhan was murdered by the Divines and the ancestors of the Aldmer when they realised creating Nirn doomed them to mortality. His divine heart was cast to the earth, and where it fell it created Red Mountain, but also imbued Nirn with his divinity.

 

Anywho, aspects of Lorkhan wandered Nirn for some time, usually killing Elves, until Talos/Ysmir/Acturis 'joined' and returned Lorkhan to the 9th throne. They then created a new divine heart through the Numidium, rendering their need for Lorkhan's hart moot. It was later destroyd/removed, by the Nerevarine, but we have no idea what happened then...

 

 

Anyway, since Talos became a god, there has been no indication of any more Shezzarines, and Talos is in fact the last one confirmed out-of-universe.

[Tank0123]

Lorkhan/Shezzar/Shor are all the same god... Talos. Lorkhan was murdered by the Divines and the ancestors of the Aldmer when they realised creating Nirn doomed them to mortality. His divine heart was cast to the earth, and where it fell it created Red Mountain, but also imbued Nirn with his divinity.

 

Anywho, aspects of Lorkhan wandered Nirn for some time, usually killing Elves, until Talos/Ysmir/Acturis 'joined' and returned Lorkhan to the 9th throne. They then created a new divine heart through the Numidium, rendering their need for Lorkhan's hart moot. It was later destroyd/removed, by the Nerevarine, but we have no idea what happened then...

 

 

Anyway, since Talos became a god, there has been no indication of any more Shezzarines, and Talos is in fact the last one confirmed out-of-universe.

 

But wouldn't the Dragonborn be a Shezzarine, given the fact that he is a Dragonborn like Talos was? Unless Dragonborn =/= Shezzarine.

 

Goodness, suddenly it seems like there's so much I don't know.

[Lachdonin]

Well, we're still not sure if the Dragonblood has to do with Lorkhan, Akatosh (who are really the same thing anyway... think a 2 headed dragon and you're sorta, kinda maybe on the right track) or some other source. I haven't played Dragonborn yet, and am not sure if the Black Books tell where it came from, but its possible the Dragonblood was 'stolen'.

 

 

Goodness, suddenly it seems like there's so much I don't know.

 

Welcome to TES lore. First lesson, no matter how much you know, you know nothing :P. Its almost as contradictory and confusing as real history.

[Tank0123]

 

Welcome to TES lore. First lesson, no matter how much you know, you know nothing :P. Its almost as contradictory and confusing as real history.

 

 

That's what I love about the Elder Scrolls. The lore isn't the cookie-cutter, omnipotent know-all truth of typical fantasy.

 

But I'm getting off track. :P