NavMesh issues and master files

[jazzisparis]

Hello everybody,

 

I was having some serious NavMesh problems with my mod, which could only be solved by converting to a master (esm) file. Unfortunately, the conversion has left me with a new problem.

I've never worked with master files before, and therefore am not sure what are their limitations. My mod adds a number of new interior cells to the gameworld. However, it also modifies several existing cells, both interiors and exteriors. The changes made are quite minor - objects are moved around, some are deleted; some NavMesh fixes; a little landscape painting etc. - you get the point. Trouble is, the game completely ignores any changes made to existing content - only newly added content is actually applied. I deduced that a master cannot override another master - this option is restricted to plugin files alone. Is this accurate?

Though yet to attempt it, I figure I could use both a master and a plugin - the former for adding new content, the later to override existing content. However, I would, if possible, prefer using only one of the two. This is where I could use your help:

1. Is there any way to eliminate the NavMesh problems, without using a master?

2. Can a master be made to override another master?

 

I would be much obliged for any input,

jazzisparis

[viennacalling]

I'm not familar with navmeshes, but for the existing references you modified if you mark them as persistent the changes should show up in game when the your mod is a master. I can't remember why and can't remember how much of a performance hit if any it causes.

[Xaranth]

1. It depends on the NavMesh issues, just what troubles are you having?

 

2. Six of one, Half a dozen of the other. The game is surprisingly unpredictable as far as this goes. I don't have any trouble with it and small changes - my DARC mod is a master and adds a new door and some statics and modifies an exterior navmesh in a wilderness cell.

[luthienanarion]

1. Navmeshes break in ESP files no matter what you do.

2. Absolutely. There is no difference between an ESM and an ESP when overriding forms from another ESM. However, you must have proper ONAM (overridden form) records in your ESM header when dealing with placed objects. The GECK will not create these (if you are using the GECK-PU 1.7 that lets you edit ESMs directly, for example) because it's designed to create only ESPs which do not require them, but FNVEdit will create them when toggling the ESM flag and saving.

[jazzisparis]

viennacalling, Xaranth and luthienanarion - Thanks for replying.

 

@luthienanarion:

I did, in fact, know about ONAMs. My error was that I first used TESsnip for the conversion to an esm. It didn't add any ONAM records automatically, only set the flag. I therefore had to add all the records manually with FNVEdit. The result was an instant CTD at startup.

It worked like a charm when I used FNVEdit for the whole procedure.

[rickerhk]

viennacalling, Xaranth and luthienanarion - Thanks for replying.

 

@luthienanarion:

I did, in fact, know about ONAMs. My error was that I first used TESsnip for the conversion to an esm. It didn't add any ONAM records automatically, only set the flag. I therefore had to add all the records manually with FNVEdit. The result was an instant CTD at startup.

It worked like a charm when I used FNVEdit for the whole procedure.

If you have a 'snip converted esm, all you have to do is load it into FNVEdit, toggle the flag off, quit/save, load it again, toggle the flag back on, quit/save.

 

Load it again in FNVEdit and you will see that all the ONAM records are now there.

[jazzisparis]

If you have a 'snip converted esm, all you have to do is load it into FNVEdit, toggle the flag off, quit/save, load it again, toggle the flag back on, quit/save.

 

Load it again in FNVEdit and you will see that all the ONAM records are now there.

Better yet, always remember to keep the ESP so to be able to work on it in the GECK. :wink:

[rickerhk]

Better yet, always remember to keep the ESP so to be able to work on it in the GECK. :wink:

Ah, I see what you mean. I would never edit an esm in the Geck because I don't think it's a good idea, and I wouldn't want to do it by accident. I can't use that version of Powerup anyway because it crashes when loading our worldspace. So I use version 1.6, which doesn't allow esm editing.

[luthienanarion]

Better yet, always remember to keep the ESP so to be able to work on it in the GECK. :wink:

Ah, I see what you mean. I would never edit an esm in the Geck because I don't think it's a good idea, and I wouldn't want to do it by accident. I can't use that version of Powerup anyway because it crashes when loading our worldspace. So I use version 1.6, which doesn't allow esm editing.

 

I just have to remember to fix the ONAMs in FNVEdit when releasing a new version. I've missed that step a time or two.