Civil War = Our Politics Today

[Tank0123]

I've been thinking about it a lot, and it seems like America's politics very much resemble that of the Civil War. Sure, we aren't killing each other over politics here, but the vitriol that gets thrown around, both in real life and in Skyrim, have remarkable parallels.

 

Let me just throw out some analysis here.

 

I wouldn't say you could associate either faction, the Stormcloaks or the Empire, with any modern-day political party or group. I mean, you could, but realistically everything is all tied up.

 

You could say that the Stormcloaks are like that conservative influence. They value tradition, honor, family -- it's about national pride, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Of course, conservatives are often associated with racism, just as the Stormcloaks are. And sometimes, their conservative intolerance and lack of a more positive cultural progression is blatant.

 

You could say that the Empire is more like that liberal influence. They want everything to pull together -- they make concessions where they need to. In the end, it is their full intention to beat the Thalmor and restore freedom to the Empire. However, they obviously rolled over for the Thalmor, let the Thalmor take away their rights for the "greater good" -- trying to please everyone, when they realize they can please no one. It is a sort of liberal weakness, you see.

 

Of course, conservative "intolerance and racism", as well as liberal "socialist agenda" crap is just that -- crap. They are a small minority among a larger group, which either side is willing to misconstrue to their own ends. I'd say it's the same deal in Skyrim -- most of the Stormcloaks and most of the Imperials want what is best for Skyrim. Yet both sides are clouded with such a great bias against the other that they are unwilling to compromise, to work against the Thalmor together.

 

There are "reasons" why one side or another should be sided with. Personally, while I'm of a more conservative/libertarian political standing, I would side with the Empire over the Stormcloaks any day -- which is why it's hard to just say that either group is more conservative/liberal than the other. They're really just a mix of both groups, for better or for worse.

 

I think, then, the most important connection above all to make is: who are the Thalmor in a real world context? Are they China? The New World Order? Illuminati? Russia? Probably none of those.

 

In our real world context, the Thalmor are one and same as Ulfric Stormcloak (a "dormant" asset of the Thalmor) and General Tullius (obviously having to work in conjunction with the Thalmor directly). The Thalmor are like a real-world elite, which plays both political sides off one another, leaving us drained and divided. They want our political divisions to continue indefinitely until they are ready to take over -- no matter who is in office, Republican or Democrat, more freedoms are taken away and more power is given to the central government. The Thalmor, likewise, are just biding their time -- the Empire and Stormcloaks realizing their mistake too late when the Thalmor suddenly sweep across the land and take away everything they've been fighting so hard to protect.

 

I think I've gone way past the point of spouting the right amount of political philosophy (which is to say, very little), but I find the whole allegory to be rather interesting.

 

Tell me what you think.

[saremei]

Honestly I'd say it is more timeless politics than anything else. There's never been a time in history without the same conflicting political views existing. I don't believe this was modeled off of anything specifically.

[dragonslayer2k12]

Having pride in your country is viewed as racist only by liberals because tradition and culture get in the way of progress and liberals want to progress all over your life and make you just like them. YES the storyline of this game does seem similar to american politics and I can't stand it. Seems like bethesda has liberal writers on their staff and other game companies too. Remember the silly storyline in crysis warhead? What about farcry 3? The beginning of farcry 3 the guy that looks almost exactly like the player character from farcry 1 is shot dead as if the writers are saying to the player, we are killing off that idea right here. I can't stand liberal storylines in games trying to teach and preach to the player which is exactly what liberals complain about conservatives doing to them. Also why is it that every single elderscrolls game has to start off with the player locked up or jailed or bound why is that? What are they saying with that? I can't stand liberals and I can't stand the greed and absentminded behavior of conservatives but such is politics. Too bad there are not several planets out there where people can move to that don't have corruption, greed and bad poilitics ruling them I would move there asap!

[jack013]

i'd say if anything it was the otherway around. the imperials want a smaller government and more do-or-die type laws. basic conservative policy. i think your confusing current cultural ideals with political ones. and the prisoner plot is more typical of right-wing americanism, given x amount of time and effort even the lowest of scum can become the glorious leader.

either way i doubt they put in that much thought considering the whole game comes down to continuous good cop or bad cop decisions.

[Gamelan]

Having pride in your country is viewed as racist only by liberals because tradition and culture get in the way of progress and liberals want to progress all over your life and make you just like them. YES the storyline of this game does seem similar to American politics and I can't stand it

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." - Samuel Johnson

 

The interesting thing about the sort of "pride" or "patriotism" displayed in Skyrim by the Nords is that it doesn't stop there - for many Nords, it's about "purifying" Skyrim; putting "lesser races" in ghettos, not allowing certain races in cities, and rejecting the Imperial notion at Tamriel is, in fact, one society. Ulfric and the Stormcloaks have a very specific agenda - "Skyrim is for the Nords". The Imperials, on the other hand, view Skyrim as part of the Empire - part of THEIR country - and in this regard the politics of Skyrim are nothing like American politics. Perhaps there are similarities when it comes to immigration let's say, but apart from that, the politics of Skyrim are about separation and segregation; something hopefully America has moved on from by now.

 

Basically, the way I see it, unless you're a Nord you have no good reason to support the Stormcloak Rebellion, because the society the Nords who pledge themselves to Ulfric want to create doesn't have a place in it for you.

[dragonslayer2k12]

Bethesda wrote the game that way to sensationalize a liberal view that tradition and culture are bad. Comparing immigration to it can't be done because that too is usually taken out of context and hyped up by liberal media to make people forget that the issue is about people crossing a border illegally and violating the sovereignty of a country and people. The issue is not about what color or ethnic background people are that cross the border illegally that is just something liberals use to make even the thought of complaining about someone breaking the law in that way bad to think about. Liberals get their support from support groups for illegal immigrants and the people they recruit for their causes. The truth of simply upholding the law gets in the way of their supporters so they have to hide the truth behind bad examples in the media like racist weirdos living on compounds and various hate groups. Conservatives just kind of ignore the illegal immigration issue because illegals provide cheap labor to the companies and farmers that support the conservatives. If I crossed the border illegally in any other country in the world besides america I would be shot dead or imprisoned and then tortured in prison and possibly die there, but if I cross the border of america illegally I get all kinds of free stuff and free healthcare from something called medicaid. I can also drive a car without a license or insurance and use a fake ID everywhere I go. If I am caught jaywalking and get a ticket the cop will have to accept my phony ID which could have an address that I don't really live at printed on it. I could then tear up the ticket in the cop face and in 90 days when they show up at the phony address on my ID they won't find me there so they don't bother looking for people like that after writing them a ticket. The cops also don't bother arresting them anymore in some states because there is no room in the local jails and there are diplomatic problems with the countries they come from if one of them is arrested and held for a long period of time. So they have free reign in america and do almost anything bad except kill someone and get away with it while the people living there have to obey every single law and pay every single citation and fine they get or else.

 

I would like to see anyone from anywhere else besides america decide to legally immigrate to america and go through all the legal crap and spend thousands of dollars and pass several written and verbal tests which are extremely hard to pass to eventually YEARS later become a citizen of the US go stand at the border and watch people cross it illegally and then ask them how they feel about that.

 

 

The liberal view written into this game is that it is racist to criticize someone for crossing a border of another country illegally. Only a fool would accept that point of view. - Dragonslayer2k12

[Gamelan]

Wow. That was quite the rant there dragonslayer. I like the passion!

 

In any event, we're discussing Skyrim here, and in Skyrim you have a simple setup; Skyrim is PART of the Empire. In this regard, Skyrim isn't really another country... it's a province within a much larger territorial entity.

 

What the Stormcloaks want, and you can't really argue with this, is a society where Nords are treated as Class A citizens and everyone else is treated as a Class B citizen. They aren't just proud of their cultural heritage... they want to keep Imperial citizens of other races OUT of their cities and OUT of Skyrim.

 

Now, if you believe that "liberal" = "not a racist", then that's a good thing. If you believe "liberal" = "naive", then perhaps there are places where you are certainly correct. However, in the context of this discussion, the type of pride displayed by the Stormcloaks has less to do with their love of Skyrim and more to do with their dislike of other races being in it. They think that Skyrim should be separate and that they should have the right to segregate their society; the Imperials feel otherwise.

 

This is why I have always supported the Empire. Not just because they're inclusive, but because the Imperial ideals are simply better than the Stormcloak ideals. The Stormcloaks basically just want a rebellion and to shape Skyrim however they want, whereas the Imperials want to see a continuation of the Empire as a strong unified military and mercantile enterprise.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Gamelan

[Wouter445]

while i understand you draw a line of reality, but anything is considered out of 2 parts.

you can symbolism Star wars also with politics.

 

anything have 2 sides, you consider your side the (good side, Light side, the right side) reality is ether side is aether good or bad.

just like a proton needs a negative charge as well as a positive if aether ain't their, the proton can't exist at all.

 

still i think current politics sux balls, you can only choose 2 sides, while i life in Netherlands we have 22 to choose from.

we must compromise to much in the agenda to create a majority, *also not the best of idea's*

 

As i play Skyrim, i never joined with the Stormcloaks, do to i never played a Nord race.

it don't make sens to join this faction when you are Wood Elf, Dunner, or red gaurd.

 

If i ever gonna play a Nord, i will sign up with the stormcloaks in a second.

[Gamelan]

Well, I would have to agree with Wouter here. You could apply these themes to any society from any time in history. Integration, segregation, reinterpretations of manifest destiny; it's all been done before. Skyrim actually features a very simple choice on the Civil War level; are you a Nord supremacist who believes that Skyrim should have Nord leadership, Nord governance, and preferential treatment of Nords... or do you prefer the old, reliable inclusive expansionist Imperial system?

 

If you were to equate this to American politics, you'd be making a HUGE leap in my opinion, because Skyrim's conflict isn't nearly as complex as the conflicts within real, functioning societies; it's a game, so the lines and thick and the viewpoints are extreme. People with extreme views often make the most noise, but it's what ends up happening that actually counts.

 

The Nords DO have a legitimate grievance when it comes to the banning of Talos worship, and the Empire proved itself to be weak when the White-Gold Concordant was signed, but a rebellion only further weakens Skyrim AND the Empire. Never made sense to me to make terrible decisions in order to make up for bad decisions.

[dragonslayer2k12]

Yes it is what ends up happening that actually counts and that is my point, bethesda could have written the story some other way instead of making the nords or the thalmor or the empire so extreme. Why make characters in a game extreme? Why push hot button issues in a form of entertainment? Just like the storyline of farcry2, this kind of writing has no place in a video game. This is a video game, a form of entertainment not a $59.99 liberal soap box. I don't remember oblivion being so extreme when it came to the nords but I have not played it for a long time. Also notice how the player character appears to be a nord in the tv commercials and picture advertisements.

 

With extreme nord characters, it is like they are pushing you to not be a nord or not be extreme. That is not fair to the player who may not see nords as extreme but just nords. My first playthrough I sided with the stormcloaks to see if ulfric would just get tullius to yield and admit that the thalmor are wrong but nope he grabbed power for himself and killed tullius. So I went back to a previous save and sided with the imperials only to find a really lame ending there too. What they should have done was let the player negotiate an end to the civil war for the rest of the main game instead of having to pick sides later so there could be a storyline in a DLC that let the player work together with the imperials, stormcloaks, and everyone else to get rid of the thalmor. Instead of doing that obvious good idea they chose to push politics and liberal preaching. Currently in america where this game is made? the extremes that make the most noise are the liberals since they own most of the news and entertainment media there.