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vegeta0585

By vegeta0585
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vegeta0585 Community Regular

vegeta0585

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at everyones suggestions, I have started a brand new clean save with the mods listed in my post above. We'll see how it goes.

 

edit*

 

also just a heads up, this is on a completely new save. I played helgen with no mods but skyre installed, activated mods right after helgen. Still a buncha errors in there.

 

 

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ripple Grand Master

ripple

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If you are going to start a fresh install, I highly recommend you switch from the Nexus Mod Manager to the Mod Organizer. Since MO does not install mods directly into your game data folder, you'll never have to do another 'clean install' of your mods.

 

I also doubt RnD is the culprit. I use it and I don't have any issues since that update where the texture bug was fixed (which is unrelated to the RnD scripts).

 

Anyways, after you finish reinstalling the mods you want to keep, post your new mod list/ load order again and we'll give it another look.

 

Some of the errors in your Papyrus logs are harmless. For example, the errors relating to 'Wearable Lanterns' (although the oil usage option is buggy, so you should turn that off in the options manual for WL if you turned it on). Others I am not sure since I don't use those mods.

Edited by ripple
vegeta0585 Community Regular

vegeta0585

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  On 1/13/2013 at 3:44 PM, ripple said:

If you are going to start a fresh install, I highly recommend you switch from the Nexus Mod Manager to the Mod Organizer. Since MO does not install mods directly into your game data folder, you'll never have to do another 'clean install' of your mods.

 

I also doubt RnD is the culprit. I use it and I don't have any issues since that update where the texture bug was fixed (which is unrelated to the RnD scripts).

 

Anyways, after you finish reinstalling the mods you want to keep, post your new mod list/ load order again and we'll give it another look.

 

Some of the errors in your Papyrus logs are harmless. For example, the errors relating to 'Wearable Lanterns' (although the oil usage option is buggy, so you should turn that off in the options manual for WL if you turned it on). Others I am not sure since I don't use those mods.

 

I posted the mods im gonna use on the page prior to this.

 

I am fine with NMM, since it backs up my mods in a seperate folder, even if I gotta install again I dont have to re-download the mods. I am used to NMM and wrye bash :)

 

so far so good, no crashes. But then again last time it didnt happen until like 12 levels and 20 hours in.

ripple Grand Master

ripple

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  On 1/13/2013 at 4:44 PM, vegeta0585 said:

I am fine with NMM, since it backs up my mods in a seperate folder, even if I gotta install again I dont have to re-download the mods. I am used to NMM and wrye bash :)

 

With MO, there is no need to make any backup's, no need to repeatedly 'uninstall/reinstall' mods when you are testing ones that have files which overwrite each other, and MO actually shows you when and which mod's loose files conflict (and you can choose which one takes precedence without overwriting anything). Anyway, it's your call. I just don't understand why many people are so hesitant about switching to something clearly better in every way I can think of, especially when NMM is such a step back even from mod managers for previous Bethesda games.

 

I just looked at your load order from the previous page (if that's the one you are currently using). I might have forgot to mention this before, but anything that adds more spawns and spawn points to the worldspace will inherently make worldspace travel more unstable. It's not the fault of the mods, but a limitation of the game engine. SkyTest, for example, is one of these mods (and it was responsible for 99% of the CTDs I experienced outdoors when I had it installed). So if you start CTDing again while fighting or traveling outdoors, consider removing some of those mods.

vegeta0585 Community Regular

vegeta0585

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well crap, I did just CTD :(

 

The odd thing is I played this game for over 400 hours WITH mods, and most of the mods I am using I used before, and I never had this happen! SkyTest included. Sigh.

 

I will uninstall skytest and see how it goes. I am also using ASIS for increased spawns too =\

 

as for MO, is it simple? I like NMM cause its double click, the end.

 

Wrye Bash is too difficult for me to learn beyond making a merged leveled list. I got TES5EDIT and I am lost as hell with it.

ripple Grand Master

ripple

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  On 1/13/2013 at 6:24 PM, vegeta0585 said:

as for MO, is it simple? I like NMM cause its double click, the end.

 

Wrye Bash is too difficult for me to learn beyond making a merged leveled list. I got TES5EDIT and I am lost as hell with it.

 

It's not difficult to use MO, just a matter of familiarity with the GUI (which will come with time) and how it does things differently from traditional mod managers. It won't miraculously solve CTDs but will make it much, much easier to track down issues and help manage mods in ways that NMM can't. Most importantly, it will never 'mess up' your game data folder and therefore will never do any sort of damage to your game installation, typically associated with traditional installation methods involving constantly overwriting stuff, that might require a fresh install of the game to remedy.

 

Wrye Bash for Skyrim, at this stage of its development, is really only most commonly used to merge leveled lists, so you are not missing out on much there. Perhaps one day it will be as fully functional as Wrye Bash for Oblivion or Wrye Mash.

Edited by ripple
bigv32 Collaborator

bigv32

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Sorry about my last post with your load order. I loaded this thread and left for about 20 minutes and then looked over everything. It looks like there were two posts between the time I first loaded the thread and when I submitted my post. I did not see those updates lol.

 

As for the NMM vs MO discussion, I have never used MO because I manually download my mods and then use NMM to install them after I have gone through each of them. I have broken my load order up into three groups. The first is what you could call the required list such as the unofficial patches etc. that fix the vanilla game and its flaws. The second is what I call my "must have list" that has things such as immersion mods, realism fixes. Basically, these are mods that I use regardless of my current game and/or character. My third group are "bonuses" that I use depending on what I am doing or if I want to test to see if it works at all (this includes my texture mods that just add new textures but don't fix anything or weather mods because of possible performance problems.). If anything conflicts with the first list in terms of possible CTD's then I don't install it or I alter it myself so it won't conflict if it is something that could be put into the second group. Any other conflicts, I consider whether or not it is worth the risk of any major conflicts. I may alter one of the mods to work.

 

You could consider my first and second groups my new vanilla game because I never add anything to them till I understand exactly what they do and if they work without problems. I make a backup of these mods in a seperate data folder, so I basically have a clean install of all my mods anytime I want. NOTE: I rarely if ever add anything to the first two lists. I haven't added a "new" mod to it in several months. If you were to compare that list to the STEP list, it is actually very similar. I just don't update the list as often. Also, I have combined several of the mods from the STEP list into my own personal mods that contain the changes from all of them. These are mods that haven't been updated in a long time because it is highly unlikely they will need to be updated. In fact, updates are about the only thing I ever add to this list.

 

Sorry for the length on that, but I just thought I would add that because this allows me to do a completely clean install of Skyrim (with completely updated versions of the mods from my first two groups that I know for a fact work together) with less than 10 mouse clicks and a minute for the files to be deleted and copied. Unless I forget to copy the update.esm from the last patch which I then need to re-download lol.

 

 

Now for the CTD issue:

 

Vegeta: Try this, use the coc riverwood option from the main menu. Then grab one of the bat files from this site that will make your character instantly level 81 with make skills and perks. Then just go and play the game (this is a test, so use a new save if you need to). Go to a place and start a fight or something. This could save you time by finding out about crashes early.

 

Also, I don't know if I have said this in this thread or another thread, but you should uninstall ASIS. I would have done that before SkyRe. ASIS does to much to the game and changes to many things. Also, the fact it changes every time you add a new mod makes it impossible to know exactly how it is affecting your load order from each new mod install to the next. I have tried using it as I think the idea is great, but to be completely honest with you, ASIS causes more problems in my mind than are worth it. Speaking of ASIS, have you rebuilt the ASIS patch after every mod install/uninstall? If not, that WOULD cause issues. Either way, take it out for now.

 

EDIT:Just saw Ripple's newest post. One thing you should be aware of is that NO and I mean NO mod manager can analyse scripts to see if what they do will conflict in game or with any other scripts. Many CTD's are caused by one of two things which are system overload or scripting errors. That being said, if MO does what I think he is saying it does (and what I think it does based on what else I have read), it COULD be better than NMM when it comes to uninstalling games.

 

@Ripple. You also said something that I have been wondering about for ages. Skyrim is my first Elder Scrolls game, and all I had before this was FO3 and FNV. How exactly was Wyre Bash different in Oblivion than it is now? I have heard that several times over the years, but since I never played Oblibion/Morrowwind, I never used it. Thanks

Edited by bigv32
ripple Grand Master

ripple

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@bigv32

It sounds like you are ready to move on to MO as well. :)

 

MO lets you tag mods so you would be able to dispense with grouping them manually (which NMM does not allow you to do without renaming the archives and the esp's). But the thing with MO is that you would *never* need to do a clean install of Skyrim, since MO does not install mods into your game data folder. When the game (or SKSE) is launched through MO, it 'reassembles' all the mods you 'installed' into a virtual data folder, in exactly the load order you've set. It's just a much cleaner method of handling mods than all previous mod managers I've used. When I was modding FNV and FO3, I use to have two duplicate game installations: one with mods I use to 'play' the game, and another with no mods except the one I was working on, in order to ensure I can test my mods against the 'base game' parameters and don't generate 'accidental' mod dependencies. With MO, all that would be needed is just to set up different profiles (one that that loads the game with the mods I use and one that loads no mods). Clean and simple.

 

But if you got a load order going now that works flawlessly and you don't want to touch it, then you should probably stick with NMM. It does take some effort to 'migrate' to MO from NMM (although Tannin is working on features to ease that process for former NMM user). In my case, I just got frustrated after a week of banging my head against NMM, and decided to uninstall everything do a fresh installation using MO (I keep backups of mods I download, just like every other experienced mod user, because we are always afraid we might have to reinstall the mod. See how we fall into certain 'patterns' to offset the shortcomings of the utilities we use? :) ). I just couldn't understand how a mod manager designed for a newer game could be several step back from (Timeslip's) mod managers for older games in the series.

 

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@Ripple. You also said something that I have been wondering about for ages. Skyrim is my first Elder Scrolls game, and all I had before this was FO3 and FNV. How exactly was Wyre Bash different in Oblivion than it is now? I have heard that several times over the years, but since I never played Oblibion/Morrowwind, I never used it. Thanks

 

Wrye Bash for Oblivion was based on Wrye Mash for Morrowind, both by the same author. It's was a '(monkey)god tool' that allowed players to merge all sorts of conflicting esp records (not just leveled lists), merge esp record into that same compatibility patch (the infamous 'Bashed Patch') so you could disable those esp's and reduce the number of plugins (I am sure if Skyrim has a cap on the number of esp's it will load), clean save game bloat (we could really use this one for Skyrim...), espify/esmify plugins (super useful for modders), BAIN installer, save game character face transfers, and *a lot* of cool functions I never used (I remember there was something that allowed you to 'morph' your character's body by swapping different body mod in game). Wrye Bash for Skyrim has many of the 'core functions' but clearly not as many features as the original Wrye Bash for Oblivion (and I thinks some features might not be working properly, like the Bashed Patch integrated game setting edits).

 

This was 'back in the day' before utilities like BOSS or TES4Edit/FO3Edit/FNVEdit/TES5Edit, when we had to manually order all the mods in our load order based on trial and error, scrutiny of individual esp's in the CK, and community suggestions. There would be at least half a dozen top threads on Bethesda's official forums on any given day where players would come together to post load orders after load orders to solicit advice and assistance (until eventually, enough players took the initiative to create something like BOSS). Timeslip's OBMM and Wrye Bash was pretty much all we had.

 

When FO3 was released, Wrye declared that he would not create a version of 'Wrye Bash' for FO3 because he didn't have much time to game anymore let alone code another 'meta mod', but the source code would be released for any intrepid souls who wanted to update the utility for use with the new Bethesda game. There was no functional 'Wrye Bash' for FO3 for the longest time. Elminster coded FO3Edit (based on his TES4Edit), and refined the 'merged patch' function of his utility to help cover the gap left in the absence of a Wrye Bash for FO3. At some point, there were attempts to revive 'Wrye Bash' for FO3 (I think the first one was called 'Gary Bash'? Not sure), but FO3Edit and FNVEdit were pretty much the utility most often used and suggested for handling automated merging of conflicting records because they were 'first on the scene' and they were already popular tools for making quick and simple esp edits, esp cleaning etc.

 

I am sort of a 'late comer' to the Skyrim PC scene. I only got this game about a month ago. I knew, based on my experiences with Besthesda games, that without tools like xxxxEdit, it would be nightmare trying to track down CTDs, load order anomalies, and so on (imagine trying to clean esp's and identify conflict records in the CK.....it would probably just mess up your game more). I wasn't interested in playing vanilla Skyrim, so I waited until the proper utilities were available before I got this game. I think I am meandering here....sorry.

 

But basically, this is why Wrye Bash for Skyrim (currently) isn't as fully developed as Wrye Bash for Oblivion (they are not the same utility, but had to be rewritten for each game). I can't say much about Wrye Mash and Morrowind. I never played Morrowind much, and only like 10 years after it was released (I am old, but I am not -that- old...:) ). There are TES 'elders' around here who can probably fill you in on this more than I can. :)

Edited by ripple
vegeta0585 Community Regular

vegeta0585

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I really really really hope its not ASIS, the new level of challenge and diffiiculty thats come with its auto spells / perks and increased spawns makes it priceless :(

 

I do indeed run it after every mod is installed to make sure its got all it needs.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions, I will try the coc riverwood thing, but the really annoying thing is that sometiems it'll crash in 10 mins, sometimes 2 hours.

 

I did notice one thing tho, I crashed this time in the EXACT same spot I crashed the previous 2 times I tried to start a new guy, and thats right outside of riverwood crossing the bleak fall barrow bridge, I turn right to go to whiterun, and when I hit the turn by the river, CTD.

bigv32 Collaborator

bigv32

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There we go lol. A location that is a consistent problem is something we can use. If you can keep repeating this in the same area (roughly) and getting logs, then we can be a little closer. Also the fact that you crashed after (what I am assuming) is two new games gives us some more to go on. Let us know if you still crash there when you coc. That area is an area where a lot people crash when there are conflicts because it has a mix of pretty much anything in Skyrim (Snowy weather up the mountain, npcs near Whiterun, a possible dragon spawn, tons of water, a village with plenty of npcs, and a ton of wildlife from land to water to birds.). In my experience, the only other place in the game where I have had more crashes in the plains to the west of Whiterun.

 

Save before you get to the area where you crash so you can do tests quicker.

 

If you are crashing around the bridge or riverwood, try disabling only these four mods and see if that helps.

 

Fantasy Music Overhaul (Skyrim use to have issues with some sound mods, so this is just to be safe for now)

ASIS

Skytest

Skyrim Monster Mod

 

Just do a quick test by just disabling the esps in your mod manager of choice. No need to uninstall them yet. Just try it and let us know.

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