[LE] Armor elements disappearing depending on distance and angle

[Rand0mNumbers]

While testing animations on some armor, I noticed some pieces of it partially disappearing as if a lower layer was clipping through. When I checked the mesh in 3ds Max, there was sufficient gap between them for this not to happen (verified by manually moving bones). I reexported and noticed that Nifskope started adopting this behavior as well.

 

Here's a short video of the armor in Nifskope:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU-f1VUg3G4

 

Steps I've tried:

1. Using SkinWrap off of female_0 body with no modification
   
2. Recreating BSDismemberModifier
   
3. Having multiple sections in BSDismemberModifier
   
4. Splitting armor up into multiple meshes
   
5. Using dummy textures
   
6. Using no textures (Nifskope only)
   
7. Adding additional geometry to make backfacing elements match frontfacing (No simplified geometry on the back of elements; perfectly shaped)
   
8. Changing the distance of affected elements from the main body of armor by a couple units (any more and it is floating)
   
9. Manually matching weights for layered elements
   
10. Copy/pasting LightingShaders from vanilla Skyrim armor
    
11. Copy/pasting AlphaProperties from vanilla Skyrim armor (specifically, the Heavy Iron Armor with pauldrons)
    
12. Not using Alpha Properties
    
13. Switching between Editable Poly and Editable Mesh (with Skin and Dismember recreation)
    
14. Detaching backfaces as separate elements
    
15. Exporting to BSFadeNode (Skyrim crashed, but Nifskope still displayed the issue)
    
16. Updating tangents in Nifskope
    
17. Running 3ds Max 2011 x86/x64 as administrator
    

*Clarification: Backface -> Body facing polygons on the backs of elements (ex: The "inside" of a pauldron)

 

The clipping occurs if I'm at an angle and at a distance in third person. However, if I zoom in (tfc mode) the clipping stops and all elements show perfectly. Same behavior in Nifskope. 3ds Max does not display this behavior.

 

Tools used:

3ds Max 2011 x64

NifSkope 1.1.3 (revision 36ebfdd)

Latest 3ds Max Nif Importer-Exporter - http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/5622

 

Does anyone know why this is happening?

 

EDIT:

 

Tried 3ds Max 2012 x64 on a different computer. Problem persists.

 

Edit:

 

The Skin Wrap was producing bad Skins. Removing it and recreating removed the issue on the back, but the front is still acting up.

 

EDIT:

 

I've separated nearly all elements into their own objects. Now every piece of armor is exhibiting the behavior.

 

If I join them all, the behavior persists. If I make new skins completely from scratch, the behavior persists.

 

Edit:

 

Nifskope is now refusing to draw the models until I delete all BSDismemberSkin modifiers.

 

Removing and installing a different version of the nif exporter doesn't help.

 

No dice with 3ds Max 2011 x86

Edited January 12, 2013 by Rand0mNumbers

[Rand0mNumbers]

It seems I cannot use Skin Wrap generated Skins on affected elements. Furthermore, I have to keep juggling objects and recreating the Skin weights from scratch until some magical switch flips and they all work. This has not occurred on all pieces yet. I wouldn't mind that much, but it takes hours to get a piece right and, should the combo not work, I've wasted yet more time.

 

I thought there might be a correlation between the see-through effect and pelvis influence for when I increased said bone's influence the effect became more visible. However, reducing that influence did not diminish the effect. It would only increase in severity, not decrease.

 

I guess this armor is not meant to be. :(

Edited January 12, 2013 by Rand0mNumbers

[Flanua]

I have the same issue.

[kozakowy]

Experiencing exactly same problem with more elaborate armours. But painting weights from the scratch does not help. Anyone found some magical solution?

Edited April 20, 2018 by kozakowy

[Deleted17937844User]

Another necro so hopefully people looking for an answer find it. Had similar problem recently myself, with an edited helm. After nearly giving up, I accidentally learned while working on another mesh that the problem was the reference I used to weight in Outfit studio.

 

I tried using just the original helm as the reference weight that I copied, and the helmet would be invisible up close and reappear further away. Had the same thing happen to some gloves I edited. It seems to be an issue with things that are near the neck, ankles, and wrists, that require more references to weight? Just copying the original mesh doesn't seem to work.

 

I fixed it by loading the femalehead as the reference shape, copying bone weights onto the helmet from that, then importing another reference shape before exporting the helm, and copying those bone weights as well. I did same things with long bracers/gloves I was working on. Loaded the hands as reference, copied, then loaded the body as reference, and copied as well.

[xavier0self]

Another necro so hopefully people looking for an answer find it. Had similar problem recently myself, with an edited helm. After nearly giving up, I accidentally learned while working on another mesh that the problem was the reference I used to weight in Outfit studio.

 

I tried using just the original helm as the reference weight that I copied, and the helmet would be invisible up close and reappear further away. Had the same thing happen to some gloves I edited. It seems to be an issue with things that are near the neck, ankles, and wrists, that require more references to weight? Just copying the original mesh doesn't seem to work.

 

I fixed it by loading the femalehead as the reference shape, copying bone weights onto the helmet from that, then importing another reference shape before exporting the helm, and copying those bone weights as well. I did same things with long bracers/gloves I was working on. Loaded the hands as reference, copied, then loaded the body as reference, and copied as well.

 

AMAZING! FIXED! Thank you so much for figuring this out! (I can't believe you managed to fix our problems mere hours apart haha)

 

I'm now thinking if you have ANY third person camera mesh issues, your best bet it to copy new weights to your armor/clothing piece using a legit reference shape. Not some other piece of armor or clothing (which was working nicely, but obviously causing issues)

 

I was also having problems with meshes clipping with distance when viewed in third person (farther away = more clipping). So this might be the solution to that issue too

[Deleted17937844User]

G

 

 

Another necro so hopefully people looking for an answer find it. Had similar problem recently myself, with an edited helm. After nearly giving up, I accidentally learned while working on another mesh that the problem was the reference I used to weight in Outfit studio.

 

I tried using just the original helm as the reference weight that I copied, and the helmet would be invisible up close and reappear further away. Had the same thing happen to some gloves I edited. It seems to be an issue with things that are near the neck, ankles, and wrists, that require more references to weight? Just copying the original mesh doesn't seem to work.

 

I fixed it by loading the femalehead as the reference shape, copying bone weights onto the helmet from that, then importing another reference shape before exporting the helm, and copying those bone weights as well. I did same things with long bracers/gloves I was working on. Loaded the hands as reference, copied, then loaded the body as reference, and copied as well.

 

AMAZING! FIXED! Thank you so much for figuring this out! (I can't believe you managed to fix our problems mere hours apart haha)

 

I'm now thinking if you have ANY third person camera mesh issues, your best bet it to copy new weights to your armor/clothing piece using a legit reference shape. Not some other piece of armor or clothing (which was working nicely, but obviously causing issues)

 

I was also having problems with meshes clipping with distance when viewed in third person (farther away = more clipping). So this might be the solution to that issue too

 

Glad I was able to help! ^o^ Much love! :wub:

[LeWeaboo]

Another necro so hopefully people looking for an answer find it. Had similar problem recently myself, with an edited helm. After nearly giving up, I accidentally learned while working on another mesh that the problem was the reference I used to weight in Outfit studio.

 

I tried using just the original helm as the reference weight that I copied, and the helmet would be invisible up close and reappear further away. Had the same thing happen to some gloves I edited. It seems to be an issue with things that are near the neck, ankles, and wrists, that require more references to weight? Just copying the original mesh doesn't seem to work.

 

I fixed it by loading the femalehead as the reference shape, copying bone weights onto the helmet from that, then importing another reference shape before exporting the helm, and copying those bone weights as well. I did same things with long bracers/gloves I was working on. Loaded the hands as reference, copied, then loaded the body as reference, and copied as well.

 

Thank you so much for the solution, I haven't found anybody else that had the same issue. To add on to this, I didn't even need to copy the weights back in myself; all I needed to do was import a new reference shape (I used CBBE body) and it worked like a charm, even if I deleted it afterwards.

 

It's very useful to know if you're someone (like me) who spent the entire day weight painting just to find out about this issue lol.

[TheRealAbyssi]

I just came by this problem today.

The solution I've found was from @Perraine

 

Click on the little arrow next to the BSDismemberSkinInstance

Then RIGHT click on the NiSkinData and select Transform -> Clear ... (Don't worry if the item moves off in some weird direction)
Then do the same thing on the NiTriShape = Transform -> Clear

NOW Right Click the BSTriShape again and do Transform -> Apply ... Click "Try Anway" to the warning.

Now you should be able to reposition the item, but make sure to use Transform -> Apply after each change ...Also you may have to repeat the Transform -> Edit and Transform -> Apply several times before the item stops moving ...

 

This solution is for Oldrim, but it works for SSE.

[thatdrakefella]

Another necro so hopefully people looking for an answer find it. Had similar problem recently myself, with an edited helm. After nearly giving up, I accidentally learned while working on another mesh that the problem was the reference I used to weight in Outfit studio.

Â

I tried using just the original helm as the reference weight that I copied, and the helmet would be invisible up close and reappear further away. Had the same thing happen to some gloves I edited. It seems to be an issue with things that are near the neck, ankles, and wrists, that require more references to weight? Just copying the original mesh doesn't seem to work.

Â

I fixed it by loading the femalehead as the reference shape, copying bone weights onto the helmet from that, then importing another reference shape before exporting the helm, and copying those bone weights as well. I did same things with long bracers/gloves I was working on. Loaded the hands as reference, copied, then loaded the body as reference, and copied as well.Â

 

Youâre a life saver! Thank you so much. Took me all day to find this comment, but thank you!