Mods not quite playing right together

[sixpak]

Ok so i'm running a few content mods that mess with level lists, which i know nothing about. Any suggestions on things that are known to completely not work together or will work with just small tweak would be great. The mods are:

 

High level enemies : standard version with no change to vanilla enemies

Immersive Patrols : i installed all options except the merchants

Warzones

Monster Mod V12 : w/ dawnguard patch

and ASIS

with Deadly Dragons at bottom

 

Anytime i change aaaanything at all, even just move load order of something I get CTD upon trying to load saved games. Somehow though if i load older saves which work to get into the game and then try and load the same save that caused CTD after that it will work. And yeah i use the patcher everytime i do anything + exit NMM and run Boss then go back in. Then adjust a couple things in the load order, usually just making sure Deadly dragons at very bottom and ASIS above that ( a couple of .esp's BOSS doesn't recognize yet )

 

That's all well and good, but the Momod monsters i come across seem to have very buggy ai ( dont know if it's momod issue ), ASIS doesn't seem to be spawning extra enemies like it used to ( though it is hard to tell and i THINK it's spawning more with Warzones at least )

 

I haven't noticed any apocalypse or phenderix spells being used by enemies either but i suppose they aren't guaranteed to use them.

 

With those mods will they just overwrite eachother, or will they actually inhibit eachother from working?

[ShadowGearX]

I'm not 100% sure as I don't use either mod, but it sounds like ASIS and WarZone do the same type of things? maybe attempting to spawn enemies in the same locations and causing a conflict? I would try disabling each of those one at time as a test, but do it from a save inside a building. Again, not sure because I don't use them. From experience though, if mods do the same type of things they will generally conflict without patches. Also, you may want to disable all your mods if that doesnt work and start a new game and test that way also. Sometimes skyrim just wants you to stop playing your character at lvl 60 and wants you to start over :P. You should also check your papyrus logs, what kind of errors are you recieving if any?

[sixpak]

I'll have to check once i'm home. ( stuck at work ) But appreciate the help, and they aren't quite the same. Warzones adds content and ASIS expands on existing content. ( be it mod or vanilla ) Those are the two that actually seem to be working in harmony.

 

The one's concerning me that are new are monster mod and immersive patrols. I don't think i've come across one of the patrols ( though it can be hard to tell ).

 

Anyway I'm not even really sure what my complaint is exactly, i guess i'm trying to cross my T's and dot my i's. The weird nature of the CTD which i can't quite pinpoint ( but can typicaly find some way to get in game anyway ) and the buggy monster mod ai ( which may be buggy to begin with ) has me a little put off. High level enemies and the community uncapper are also new to me but i can't really imagine those causing problems for other mods.

[ripple]

1) please post your load order (in text format, no pics).

 

2) anything that adds more spawns or spawn points to the game will inherently make the game more unstable (how much more unstable depends on what these mods add and how much of it they add). It's not the fault of the mods but a limitation of the game engine. It's why the vanilla game has a 'depopulation problem.' If you post your mod list/load order, we might be able to tell you what you can trim to help stabilize your game.

[bigv32]

You have a nice set of mods there that add a ton of content. As Ripple said, load order would be good as well as any crash logs you have.

 

Now for your mods themselves. I have used all of those mods in the past (except deadly dragons, but I am pretty sure that it is not suppose to be that the bottom of your order. Leave it where BOSS puts it unless BOSS does put it at the bottom.) Anyways, Deadly Dragons is most likely not the issue.

 

1. ASIS is one mod I have seen and had more issues with it than I would care to think about. The fact that it CHANGES both modded and unmodded content and then expands on it in game means it is a pain in *** when it comes to finding conflicts. Also, it has issues with the higher level enemies at times. Most of the time, there is not an issue when you rebuild the patch to add a new mod, but it really gets "entertaining" when you uninstall a mod and then rebuild the patch. Adding and taking away from the game files is always a danger unless you know exactly what was added or removed. In the case of the mod you uninstalled, that is easy to track down. However, the ASIS patches are different. I once did a test where I backed up the patch, installed a new mod, rebuilt the patch, backed that one up, and then uninstalled the same mod, rebuilt the patch. I then compared the before and after patches and found them to be different because I used the same save as before and after and it said I had lost content (not this was not content from the mod I installed as this save was not the one loaded with the new mod).

 

2. I quit using monster mod because it had to many issues with warzones. However, this was before I found the patch 1.8 fix for warzones, but by then I decided I could live without monster mod. In your warzones options, disable the creature spawns and random encounters.

 

3. Immersive Patrols can have issues with warzones, but again, I haven't used it since I found the patch for warzones.

 

 

For now, lets try to figure out if this is a mod conflict that affects the whole game or just you saves. At the main menu use the console command coc riverwood. From there go play the game for a while. Go to a warzone or something (you are trying to tax your system and be in a place where as many mods as possible interact.). I recommend the Warzones to the west of Whiterun in the plains. If you don't crash, then your save COULD be the issue. Did you do a clean install of those mods?

[sixpak]

You have a nice set of mods there that add a ton of content. As Ripple said, load order would be good as well as any crash logs you have.

 

Now for your mods themselves. I have used all of those mods in the past (except deadly dragons, but I am pretty sure that it is not suppose to be that the bottom of your order. Leave it where BOSS puts it unless BOSS does put it at the bottom.) Anyways, Deadly Dragons is most likely not the issue.

 

1. ASIS is one mod I have seen and had more issues with it than I would care to think about. The fact that it CHANGES both modded and unmodded content and then expands on it in game means it is a pain in *** when it comes to finding conflicts. Also, it has issues with the higher level enemies at times. Most of the time, there is not an issue when you rebuild the patch to add a new mod, but it really gets "entertaining" when you uninstall a mod and then rebuild the patch. Adding and taking away from the game files is always a danger unless you know exactly what was added or removed. In the case of the mod you uninstalled, that is easy to track down. However, the ASIS patches are different. I once did a test where I backed up the patch, installed a new mod, rebuilt the patch, backed that one up, and then uninstalled the same mod, rebuilt the patch. I then compared the before and after patches and found them to be different because I used the same save as before and after and it said I had lost content (not this was not content from the mod I installed as this save was not the one loaded with the new mod).

 

2. I quit using monster mod because it had to many issues with warzones. However, this was before I found the patch 1.8 fix for warzones, but by then I decided I could live without monster mod. In your warzones options, disable the creature spawns and random encounters.

 

3. Immersive Patrols can have issues with warzones, but again, I haven't used it since I found the patch for warzones.

 

 

 

For now, lets try to figure out if this is a mod conflict that affects the whole game or just you saves. At the main menu use the console command coc riverwood. From there go play the game for a while. Go to a warzone or something (you are trying to tax your system and be in a place where as many mods as possible interact.). I recommend the Warzones to the west of Whiterun in the plains. If you don't crash, then your save COULD be the issue. Did you do a clean install of those mods?

 

I'll have to post load order once home, sorry I can't do it now.

 

I have Deadly Dragons after Momod specifically because the author of momod had mentioned to do that in the forums in the past.

 

The CTD are always when trying to load a save, and yeah like you said removing content can be just as much a pain with ASIS. However if i simply don't change anything it is stable and works great. ( except that i still only see enemies using vanilla spells and it's hard to tell if the spawn rate is actually increased. Also not noticing potions being used much( at all ).. seems ASIS is just not doing as much as i expect it to. And i dread having to remove or add anything . ( although at this point i have enough to keep me happy a long time ) i've run into more momod creatures, some seem to work well. Others ( usually ones that float and cast spells ) are just .. lazy and hardly attack.

 

But yeah once i'm in game everything runs quite stable, i've had one ctd i can think of. Yesterday i played 6 hours no problems. I'll post again with load order and any error logs that come about. Appreciate the feedback.

 

EDIT: ok here's my load order for the things that matter ( i have 90 mods currently so not going to put them all up, i was dilligent before setting this up on checking compatibility, all except these mods in question which i'm un sure of ) if there's a better way than typing these out let me know, i tried to copy paste from NMM but wouldn't work

 

skymomod.esm

AV1Dragon_Lords.esp

High Level Enemies.esp

High Level Enemies - Dawnguard.esp

Immersive battles.esp

Immersive Brigands.esp

Immersive Dawnguard.esp

Immersive Patrols.esp

Immersive Werewolves.esp

Phenderix Magic Evolved - cleaned.esp

Apocalypse = The Spell Package.esp

ForgottenMagic.esp

Duel - Combat realism.esp

ACE Realistic fighting ( and all the other modules except archery, ( might be relevent to ASIS i guess )

Balanced Magic.esp ( again, ASIS .. with the amount of damage some enemy spellcasters can do and how powerful some enemies can be i do believe the perk portion of ASIS is working )

Balanced Magic_Dawnguard.esp

LF-SkyMoMod.esp

ASIS-Dependency.esp

ASIS.esp

Deadly Dragons.esp

Edited January 15, 2013 by sixpak

[bigv32]

Okay, just to clarify, I want to make sure I understand what is happening.

 

From the way I understand it you are only having crashes when you attempt to load games. However, once you do get it to load, you are perfectly fine.

 

Based on that, is this one specfic save that you have issues with it? I mean, does it mean you can´t load this one save ever or just every once in a while, you crash when you try to load it?

 

If you can still load it but only crash once in a while, it is probably not a load order issue then because if it was that, you would not be able to load the save at all. This could be a save game issue.

 

Do you save your game using the same file over and over again? Also, do you use the autosave feature?

 

NOTE: When I asked above whether you are having trouble loading just one save, I should have been clearer. Do you have any trouble loading saves that are all from the SAME playthrough? I am asking it this way because even if you make a new save file from a game that has had save issues, you will still have those issues.

 

Let us know because if we can determine its a save issue, normally it is far simpler to fix. The only problem is it usually means that a new game is required because faulty scripts are still stuck in the game save itself.

 

Let us know.

[sixpak]

Okay, just to clarify, I want to make sure I understand what is happening.

 

From the way I understand it you are only having crashes when you attempt to load games. However, once you do get it to load, you are perfectly fine.

 

Based on that, is this one specfic save that you have issues with it? I mean, does it mean you can´t load this one save ever or just every once in a while, you crash when you try to load it?

 

If you can still load it but only crash once in a while, it is probably not a load order issue then because if it was that, you would not be able to load the save at all. This could be a save game issue.

 

Do you save your game using the same file over and over again? Also, do you use the autosave feature?

 

NOTE: When I asked above whether you are having trouble loading just one save, I should have been clearer. Do you have any trouble loading saves that are all from the SAME playthrough? I am asking it this way because even if you make a new save file from a game that has had save issues, you will still have those issues.

 

Let us know because if we can determine its a save issue, normally it is far simpler to fix. The only problem is it usually means that a new game is required because faulty scripts are still stuck in the game save itself.

 

Let us know.

 

Yeah i'm pretty sure you're right on it being save related. I play with multiple saves, i use auto save, quick save and periodically create a new save file every other hour or at parts of the game i want to keep a seperate save for.

 

So far there's only one mod i removed, which was companion cerwiden, which after removing i never did get the save to load where she was saved on the same screen. ( understandable ) so i went to an earlier save and that one worked. Since then the problems I've had have been when editing a mod or two in CK ( i only ever just edit spell value's or weapon stats on specific mod in question, keep it simple ) or whenever adding a new mod. ( i run the patcher for asis everytime after..sometimes i don't run it just to see what will happen and of course it crashes )

 

Even after running the patcher though I tend to get CTD the first attempts to get in, the odd part though is the work around is typically to load a save game from way prior. ( same character ) Once i've loaded a previous save i'm suddenly able to load the save i couldn't get into earlier.

 

It hasn't been anything I can't work around ( eventually ), but it's been much more touchy than it should be. But yes it will run totally fine once i get it going as long as i don't change anything, even the saves will load up no problem as long as nothing is ever adjusted. One small change and I can expect CTD on save loads even after running the patcher.

 

Appreciate the help. ( it's become more clear since starting this thread it's mostly revolving around ASIS, even the in game things that concern me like enemies not using any new spells, potions or even having increased spawns are related to it. The only option I don't have toggled in the patcher is random spawns since a lot of people in the forum where saying it's buggy at the moment. Once i feel like playing with the CTD again maybe i'll try enabling that one lol )

[bigv32]

I would normally agree with you that ASIS is the problem or at least not part of the solution, but in this case, I don't know what to make of this. ASIS in my experience causes conflicts that result to CTD's on loading that happen everytime or cause huge amounts of ingame instability. In this case, you have neither of those things. As for the AI not using potions etc, that is probably just a limitation of the game. A perfect example of this is something I have seen in many of Gopher's Let's Play videos. He gave his companion mage spells which were far better than the ones he was using, but the AI would still use the default spells most of the time. ASIS I think just increases the odds, but the game itself is somewhat flawed in this respect.

 

Not being able to load a save unless you load a previous save seems very odd to me. I honestly have not heard of this before in Skyrim. I did have a similar problem in Fallout3, but I never did figure it out because I was extremely new to modding and save games etc. One thing you can do to help speed this particular process up is to load the save that is earlier, go to a very small cell such as a house or something, use the pcb console command, and then save the game. This helps a little by making the save as small as possible so it takes less time to load. Getting rid of everything you have outside the cell can help slightly, but that is probably not noticable.

 

When editing a mod in the creation kit, I too have had some issues in the past. For some reason my mod managers would freak out on me and I would have issues with that one plugin. What I now do is make my own plugin and just make the mod I want to use as a master file. This way the original mod is still there.

 

In the future, I would recommend doing what I see Gopher doing when he plays. He never copies over a single save file (except the quicksave). Everytime he saves, he makes a new file. Granted, he has or had over a 1000 last time I saw, but it should not affect you at all. When you are done with a playthrough, you can delete them if you want. Note: He also does this for is other video series so he can show different things, but the theory behind it makes sense.

 

If I was you, I would start a new thread devoted entirely to this new save issue. This will help get more people involved and clarify the issue so we are not looking at a load order issue like we were when we first started this thread. If you do, post a link to it here for us.

[sixpak]

Ok thanks, i'll do that soon as i have a chance. I literally have two minutes so i'm just going to reply quick and update before i run out the door and i'll make a new topic later.

 

I just did a bit more controlled test since before, this time i made a new save, went into CK, edited a few value's i wanted to change for my game then went right back to the save. Caused no problems. For the heck of it I ran the patcher again. Tried to load that same save, CTD.

 

Tried again and loaded a way earlier save, it worked. Tried loading that same save that didn't work from before after getting into game, it worked. It's so bizarre. After that i created a new save, tried to load it CTD. Same thing after trying the process again. And again.

 

I also adjusted the spawn weight to always add at least 1 more spawn minimum so i can at least tell if that's working. Will have to play to find out though.