Necromage vampire exploit fix

[plectrius]

Hi,

 

I'm seeking for a mod that correct the necromage glitch when being a vampire, I think it's issued in the unofficial patch but it messes a lot with the item/perk names when not playing the English version of the game. Thanks in advance.

[Rooker75]

Well first, it's not a glitch and certainly not an exploit. Second, here you go: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/30227

[plectrius]

Well first, it's not a glitch and certainly not an exploit. Second, here you go: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/30227

 

Thanks for the mod, I'll give it a try. Not a glitch ? The perk is supposed to make the "spells more effective against undead" then why my potions, enchants, some perks and even standing stone powers are buffed ? These aren't spells and even if they were, I'm not using them against undead opponents...

Edited January 21, 2013 by plectrius

[jack013]

well if you're a vampire you are, and those things are all magic.

[Rooker75]

Yeah, vampire is undead, so magic or magical effects you put on yourself makes you a valid target for the perk. Potions logically shouldn't be considered magic, but that's how the game engine treats them. Their effects are considered Restoration school.

 

Nobody but Bethesda knows if they intended the perk to work that way, but there's been a huge discussion about it on their message board for over a year and they haven't said anything. Before Dawnguard, vampires needed any help they could get really. They were pretty weak.

[plectrius]

Don't know, the perk description is clear enough for me, it applies to spells casted against undead, I don't see any reason to jump from that to " improve other perks you take because you are undead", e.g muffle and windwalker... Personally I don't feel this like being legit, everyone is free to use it or not I guess.

[sevencardz]

Hope this thread's not dead ... because I agree with Plectricus, the exploits were fun to play with, but are overpowered and even buggy in some situations. For example, I understand Steady Hand in Archery has issues if activated as a necrovamp.

 

Here's how I think Necromage should read: "All spells are 25% more effective and last 50% longer when cast on the undead."

 

I also have some ideas on how to go about fixing and balancing necrovamp beyond just removing boosts to enchanted items, potions, perks, standing stones and blessings, which obviously don't make sense. I'm not talking about removing all of the boosts completely because the basic premise is logical: You are undead and you are a necromage, thus spells you cast on yourself are more effective.

 

I got no problem making the changes myself buuuuuuut ... I have no clue where to start to make this happen. I understand there's an SKSE and a CK and that's all fine and dandy but all I need is to edit some basic game mechanics and get a mod made out of it. I'd be happy to discuss more of my ideas with anyone willing to get me started on making the mod or who might even want to bang it out themselves (I would be happy to test it).

 

EDIT: maybe mod requests forums is better choice :)

Edited February 7, 2013 by sevencardz

[plectrius]

 

I'm not talking about removing all of the boosts completely because the basic premise is logical: You are undead and you are a necromage, thus spells you cast on yourself are more effective.

 

 

I get your point but - in my opinion - even spells you cast on yourself are not concerned by the necromage perk, the main clue here is the word AGAINST. It's clearly intended to increase damage/duration on foes not on yourself. In other words a necromage is an expert in harming undead, nothing else. Once again that's just my opinion...

[sevencardz]

 

plectrius, on 10 Feb 2013 - 06:05, said:

From 06 Feb 2013 - 21:50:

 

I'm not talking about removing all of the boosts completely because the basic premise is logical: You are undead and you are a necromage, thus spells you cast on yourself are more effective.

I get your point but - in my opinion - even spells you cast on yourself are not concerned by the necromage perk, the main clue here is the word AGAINST. It's clearly intended to increase damage/duration on foes not on yourself. In other words a necromage is an expert in harming undead, nothing else. Once again that's just my opinion...

I understand your point too, but the meaning of 'against' is open for interepretation, so I choose all of them:

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/against

 

1a. destruction spells are more effective against (in hostility to) the undead

2a. necromancy spells are more effective against (directly opposite) undead corpses

4b. turn undead, warding spells are more effective against (as a defense or protection from) the undead

5a. healing/flesh/invisibility spells are more effective against (in the direction of and into contact with) your undead self

 

Shouts are spells too, so Elementay Fury, Become Ethereal, etc should also stay boosted.

 

I think Bethesda intended for Necromage to be a pretty flexible perk but just screwed up the implementation. The ability to do more spell damage to the undead makes sense, and if you attain advanced knowledge of both the undead and restoration magic, shouldn't you also be better at healing and protecting the undead? If you are undead, why wouldn't that apply to you as well?

 

However, I do agree that all boosts to enchanted items, potions, perks, standing stones and blessings just don't make sense and seem to be unintentional bugs which should be fixed by my estimate.

Edited February 22, 2013 by sevencardz

[ArtMurder]

I personally feel it was one of the few worthwhile perks in vanilla skyrim, and I am currently looking for the exact opposite as SkyRe removes this advantage, and I feel it makes vampires almost unplayable, considering how week they were to begin with and how overpowered SkyRe makes everything else.

 

just look at the title. "Necromage" - I mage that specializes in the undead. If you are undead, then that means everything you do/use on yourself becomes more powerful, because you can manipulate your body like a corpse, because it essentially is a corpse.

 

of coarse I use the BS vampire overhaul, which makes it so that vampires aren't healed by healing potions and such, so it SHOULD come out more balanced, but SkyRe had other plans.