Question Involving the Good End

[Starch]

Didn't the markers of Fallout 3 say there is going to be over 200 endings?

 

http://kotaku.com/371657/fallout-3-has-over-200-endings

 

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/03/25/new-deta...-for-fallout-3/

 

http://fallout3.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/t...e-fallout-fans/

[grumbler]

I think you've just dug up another plot hole here, and boy is it a big one.

 

The impression I get is that there was more to the purifier than a simple exchange filter (something that would draw water from the tidal basin, clean it, and return it); were that the case Project Purity would end up affecting only Rivet City and the extreme southeast of the Wasteland. While that is certainly an accomplishment, it is not consistent with statements made by James and Dr. Li- both of whom claim it will affect the entire Capitol Wasteland, which would include (for our purposes) everything from Raven Rock all the way down the Potomac. Then again, as you've pointed out, Li says that it purifies "all the water in the tidal basin at once," which is inconsistent with that claim.

I don't see the plot hole. :mellow: Nobody, insofar as I know, says that Project Purity changes all the water in the wasteland. What they say is that it will affect the entire wasteland, which is true of just changing all the water in the Tidal Basin, as fresh water is no longer a rare commodity. The plot hole appears to be a hole in the plot of your explanation, not Bethesda's. I could be convinced otherwise with dialogue quotes, of course.

 

If that is all it does, then you've still got the rest of the Potomac to think about- a river continually pouring contaminated water into the tidal basin, thus re-contaminating the source. It doesn't seem to make sense that way. :/

First, the Potomac is no longer a river. Big stretches of the riverbed are dry. Just follow the course north from about Farragut West Metroe, or south from Bigtown, and you will find what I think is the southernmost dry patch (its very near Hamilton's hideaway). Second, the river doesn't flow directly into the tidal basin. There is a dam between the basin and the river. So, Dr. Li's assertion makes much more sense than the idea that the effect on the tidal basin is somehow "contagious" and BethSoft's story has less plot loopholes than yours.

 

Here's how I'd do it.

 

Water enters at the purifier, is cleaned up then pumped to the DC area's surviving water delivery infrastructure- not directly back into the tidal basin- which then delivers it to the Wasteland. Before you say that isn't possible, think about it this way- if at least some of those facilities weren't still operating, none of the sinks or toilets in the Wasteland would work at all (except for those served by their own facilities, like Megaton and- probably- Tenpenny Tower and the Citadel. No infrastructure, no water pressure; no water pressure, no running water. However, they do work- even in areas that have suffered extensive damage. Most of the small settlements have no visible waterworks/pumphouse like Megaton does, either; they appear to be served entirely by the old system (whatever remains of it). This is a classic proof by deductive logic: If A then B. A in this case being running water throughout the Wasteland (true), and B as the infrastructure required to deliver that water. A is true, therefore B must also be true.

The sinks and toilets could work with just the gravity pressure in the lines above them. Not for long (and that is another bit of evidence that the 200-years-since-the-war shift was very late in the design). The out-of-the-way places like Arefu and Republic of Dave (or, for that matter, Canterbury Commons and Paradise Falls) could easily be relying on wells. That's what such communities did before there was such a thing as a central water system.

 

The river itself thus becomes irrelevant, as does the tidal basin (thus the plot hole), as the purified water exists only within the pipes and storage tanks and not in the open. However... well, it would work that way, as long as that all-important support infrastructure was maintained (which would in itself be a Herculean task, but one which is apparently possible since the water does flow).

I think that Occam's Razor would eliminate most of your hypothesis, since it assumes maintenance, and therefor maintainers, that are unnecessary to the solution to the problem.

 

Here's where the Super Mutants bungle up the Project. The Jefferson Memorial is, as portrayed in game, a very easy to defend position. If the purifier were the only objective requiring defense, then a handful of Brotherhood troops could have held it indefinitely... especially with the Taft tunnels connecting it more or less directly to the Citadel for resupply. However, if there are numerous objectives that need defending- say, a half dozen or so waterworks facilities in far less ideal locations- then those would tie up most of the Brotherhood's resources if they came under attack, and the entire network could not be effectively protected in the long term. Since the Super Mutants are literally all over DC, the Brotherhood (tasked with defending Project Purity at that time) finds itself having to piss out dozens upon dozens of fires. Since the purifier won't work at all unless the entire support system is also functional, defending it when the rest can't be defended becomes pointless and the Brotherhood pulls out.

Again, you add detail which is unnecessary. If the BoS is running short of manpower and the Project visibly isn't making progress, then the BoS would pull out even if the only place they have to defend is the Memorial. Had these multiple facilities been needed, then they would all have to be restored in the plotline we know of before Project Purity could succeed, and we know this isn't true because the only place you work on to restore the project is at the Memorial. If you want to argue that the other facilities exist but don't need to be restored, then they didn't need to be defended to begin with, because they have been overrun by Supermutants for close to 20 years.

 

The obvious flaw to that is, obviously, that the Super Mutants didn't destroy the support infrastructure. That may, however, have been the reason why Lyons agreed to help resurrect Project Purity- knowing that the purifier itself had become the only weak point, since the Super Mutants were apparently uninterested in anything else. Since James figured out how to actually make the purifier do what it was designed for, and since the support infrastructure turned out to not require defending, it then became possible to both defend and activate the system even though the Super Mutant threat had yet to be neutralized. Enter the Enclave, but we all know how that ends.

Yes, this is the loophole in your conjectures. It is easier to believe that Lyons abandoned the one location that we know is key, rather than a lot of locations that we know are not.

 

Mind you, I am just pulling all of this out of my rectum as speculation, but IMHO it seems to fit the facts about as well as anything else.

Yes, they fit a lot of the facts, but not as well as what we already knew. If your conjecture is correct, then what Dr. Li said must be false. If we add what she said to what we know otherwise, then the only real issue is the 200 year lapse since the war - and that already causes so many other problems that this is just another example of that gaping plot loophole (and by no means the worst: the still-operating computer sitting in the open near the Germantown Police Station probably takes that cake).

 

BTW, I am enjoying the discussion and mean nothing personal by my refutations of your arguments. It is all in the spirit of friendly argument.

[grumbler]

Didn't the markers of Fallout 3 say there is going to be over 200 endings?

 

http://kotaku.com/371657/fallout-3-has-over-200-endings

 

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/03/25/new-deta...-for-fallout-3/

 

http://fallout3.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/t...e-fallout-fans/

Alas, that includes "different endings" based on your gender and race choices (2*4*2 right there) and your karma total (*3) as well as whether or not you or Lyons or no one starts PP (*3) and whether or not you use the FEV (*2 on the 48 combos that have you starting PP). That's 192 combinations of vids in the end sequence. Add the 8 combos (race/gender) where Autumn kills you before the "ending" and you are at 200 (and I am sure there are some I left out). It's not really that many unique endings based on "in-game choices," and I wish BethSoft wouldn't try to stretch the truth like this. It only bites them in the ass in the end.

[hbzliln1ck]

I felt the same way. I even turned to him to ask him to do it and he gave a lame excuse that he couldn't. Umm, right.

 

As it was, my radiation status was still under control due to my perks, power armour and meds and yet it somehow killed me.

 

Of course, even if you don't do it, the bloody game ends. You don't get to see the fruit of your labours even with the mod which allows us to keep playing as it seems nobody has yet been able to code the wasteland water now being radiation free.

 

I enjoyed and am enjoying the game (now on my 2nd character) but the ending definitely left a lot to be desired.

 

I wonder why they didn't leave it more open ended like Oblivion?

 

 

thats what im thinking too but with thaere DLC, they have one where the end continues i believe

its the one coming in march where you join the BoS

[hbzliln1ck]

Didn't the markers of Fallout 3 say there is going to be over 200 endings?

 

http://kotaku.com/371657/fallout-3-has-over-200-endings

 

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/03/25/new-deta...-for-fallout-3/

 

http://fallout3.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/t...e-fallout-fans/

 

yeh that is true

 

i would like to hear from bethesda on that too

[Rockatanskiy]

What I don't understand about the ending scene is how you are considered "bad" if you send Lyons in to do the deed.

 

Should Lyons be considered evil if she lets you do it? Since when is it your responsibility to sacrifice yourself to save the world. You are just as responsible as Lyons, Moira, or that ever-thirsty water beggar.

 

I just hate it when a game like this makes it so obvious that you are the center of the universe...

[Tchos]

I agree! And Fawkes should be considered absolutely diabolical for allowing you or anyone else to do it!

[overload1977]

u see yourself fall over right and die but where is your dads body i think u and your dad come back alive in the new addons coming out in a month or two

[Poliochi]

Somehow, I think that James is dead. The only other option would be him becoming something like that boss from one of the other 2 Fallout games (don't remember which), who was a cyborg-mutant monster created by the Enclave. Actually, that would be kinda awesome.