Certain mods cause CTD upon loading saves

[blendercat]

This is a problem I've had for a while, however, I've been searching for a fix but I haven't found one yet. My issue is certain mods will cause a save-game(All saves, not just one) to CTD on the loading screen(After clicking continue or load game.). I ran both BOSS and Wrye Bash and both turned up zero conflicts, although there are some files which need TES5Edit cleaning(Perhaps the cause, I have not attempted this yet). I know it's certain mods because I can disable them and the game runs fine, however, many of these mods are mods which I highly anticipated using and wish to use in my game, so any possible fix would be greatly appreciated. I'm using a laptop which can run Skyrim on medium, with the following specs(Using Dxdiag)

 

A10-4600M Quad-Core processor at 2.3 GHz

8192 MB of RAM

DirectX 11

AMD Radeon 7670M+7670M graphics with 1 GB memory

Windows 8 64-bit

 

This is the BOSS 'report'(Spoilered for sake of length)

 

Recognized Plugins

 

These plugins are recognised by BOSS and have been sorted according to its masterlist. Please read any attached messages and act on any that require action.

Skyrim.esm Active

Update.esm ActiveContains dirty edits: 52 ITM, 1 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

 

HearthFires.esm ActiveContains dirty edits: 171 ITM, 11 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

Requires: Skyrim 1.7.7+

 

moonpath.esm Active

SPIKE.esm Active

XFLMain.esm ActiveRequires: Skyrim 1.3+

Note: For safe mod uninstall see special uninstallation instructions on mod page.

 

portal2mod.esp ActiveContains dirty edits: 5 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

 

breezehomelightfix.esp Active

lockpickvision.esp Active

bagoftrashmg.esp ActiveNote: Use only one BagofTrash*.esp

 

calt.esp Active

explosivechickens.esp Active

mammoth hide.esp Active

auto unequip arrows.esp Active

DYNAVISION Dynamic Depth of Field.esp ActiveNote: Make sure you have not switched DoF off in your ini file. If you don't see any effect, open you Skyrimprefs.ini and look for 'bDoDepthOfField'. Make sure it is set to 1.

 

Footprints.esp Active

SkyUI.esp Active

dwemerautoblade.esp Active

getoverherebow.esp Active

Knight Of Thorns Armor.esp Active

LFDarksidersWarSet.esp Active

Magicka Sabers.esp Active

NightingaleArrows.esp Active

stalhrimstandalone2.esp ActiveBash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Relev}}

 

SwitchAxe.esp Active

throwing knives.esp Active

WeaponsOf3E.esp ActiveBash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Relev}}

 

wulfharth's dragonbone weapons.esp Active

dragon falls manor.esp ActiveContains dirty edits: 63 ITM, 19 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

 

fckagrenacsinstantfortress.esp Active

greystone castle v1.0.esp Active

moonpath_questdata.esp Active

Acquisitive Soul Gems.esp Active

Immersive Weapons.esp ActiveBash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev}}

Contains dirty edits: 2 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

 

palistovspinningarrows.esp Active

unreadbooksglow.esp Active

dawnstar_thecoinstide.esp Active

dd - realistic ragdoll force - realistic.esp ActiveNote: Ragdolls will conflict with other mods that change the skeleton.nif. Check Custom Skeleton Replacers for compatibly with other skeleton.nif.

 

actorball.esp Active

dragon knowledge spell.esp Active

summondarklings.esp Active

unrelenting grip.esp Active

Sneak Tools.esp Active

Sneak Tools Vanilla Hoods.esp Active

Sneak Tools Vanilla Masks.esp Active

DeadlyCombat.esp Active

DeadlyCombat_NoArmorChanges.esp Active

the dance of death.esp ActiveContains dirty edits: 7 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

 

private_nokillblur_test.esp Active

beards.esp Active

XFLDialogue.esp Active

XFLPlugins.esp Active

Blaze Of Eventide.esp Active

Spousetocustomhome.esp Active

random alternate start.esp Active

Animated Weapon Enchants.esp Active

replacer visuals for spell effects.esp Active

purewaters.esp Active

minemapmarkers.esp Active

RaceMenu.esp ActiveRequires: SKSE 1.6.6+

 

RaceMenuPlugin.esp ActiveNote: RaceMenuPlugin is optional and provides support to alter Height, Breast, Glute and Biceps. If you experience issues with it, disable RaceMenuPlugin.esp and inform the author.

 

Bashed Patch, 0.esp

 

Plugins unrecognized by BOSS

 

hearthfirehouseexterior.esp Active

wulfharth's dragonbone katanas.esp Active

atticlakeview_nowalls.esp Active

someprivacyplease_door.esp Active

AK- Placeable Statics.esp Active

QuicksilverArmor.esp

AK- Placeable Statics - Hearthfire.esp Active

proudmanorsmithing.esp Active

perkbookssmithing.esp Active

absolutepower!!!.esp Active

Oblivious Horses.esp Active

LakeviewManorContainerNames.esp Active

antiquearmors.esp Active

dwemerrifle_th.esp

eyes for elves.esp

spsmi.esp Active

tga_dyramisty.esp Active

argoniantints.esp Active

ragdollspell.esp Active

spycrab.esp Active

bettermorthal.esp Active

black knight.esp Active

betterdawnstar.esp Active

betterwinterhold.esp Active

betterinns.esp Active

extra encounters.esp Active

elementalfuryenchanted.esp Active

corneroftheskyrim.esp Active

stormblade.esp Active

s7othehumblesthut.esp Active

knightsetsas.esp Active

lightthiefarmor.esp Active

laboheme_oghmainfiniumpathofmastery.esp Active

thane's breezehome(v.4.1).esp Active

bettermarkarthexterieur.esp Active

marchanditinerant.esp Active

nexus_craftable_smeltable_soulgems.esp Active

proudspire basement.esp Active

PlayerHome.esp Active

crafttnpg.esp Active

 

 

If anyone has any suggestions, or further action I should take, I would appreciate the information.

 

Thanks in advance.

[ripple]

1) When BOSS tells you that you should clean an esp using TES5Edit, then you should download TES5Edit and clean the esp. Don't think about it, just do it.

 

2) After you have done that, use TES5Edit to examine the esp's not recognized by BOSS. See if they conflict with other esp's in your load order, and decide where they should go in the load order based on what you see. Absolutely do not allow them to load after your compatibility patches (e.g. Bashed Patch). You can use the 'BOSS User List Manager' to set custom rules that will run whenever you run BOSS, so the load order position of the esp's not recognized by BOSS won't be reset.

Edited January 24, 2013 by ripple

[finndo77]

1) When BOSS tells you that you should clean an esp using TES5Edit, then you should download TES5Edit and clean the esp. Don't think about it, just do it.

 

2) After you have done that, use TES5Edit to examine the esp's not recognized by BOSS. See if they conflict with other esp's in your load order, and decide where they should go in the load order based on what you see. Absolutely do not allow them to load after your compatibility patches (e.g. Bashed Patch). You can use the 'BOSS User List Manager' to set custom rules that will run whenever you run BOSS, so the load order position of the esp's not recognized by BOSS won't be reset.

 

 

have any suggestions for after using tes5edit?

 

I've been "dealing with it" for 6 months now, I have a system setup where I save every 2-5 minutes and have a batch file running that copies any save made to a new folder every 2 minutes. recently I had a massive f'up and lost my NMM mods folder, I managed to find most of the mods I had (about 65-75 percent) and got them all installed. I keep the latest updates and have removed the 8 mods that prevented me from leaving the sleeping giant inn after I finally purchased dawnguard (which I only did, because one of the mods I subscribed to on Steam the creator won't make a non-dawnguard version (after he updated his mod to it), won't upload to nexus (so no previous versions and Steam doesn't keep the older versions), plus the author did not maintain a local version archive. So, I bought dawnguard and lost 8 mods of which 5 I was actively using, the other three were of the type "I'd like it to be there when I get that part of the game without having to exit add the mod, then reload" so that I could get that one mod working, and now I don't even remember what it was...

 

I've trimmed 65 mods that:

overlap on others and I can deal without the extra stuff

have not used in the last 280 hours of game play (all different types)

don't think I am going to use (mostly race addons or modifications to vanilla races)

most item addons ("new" weapons or armor)

most texture packs, until I get a video card with more than 1GB or RAM

tes5edit said caused game crashes

tes5edit said were pre-CK and needed patching

 

I still have frequent crashes of the normal type (some CTD some just lock the game up, some hard crash my entire system), everytime I walk through a specific very small area it crashed (often I can go about 40 yards to any side and walk around and be fine, normally in the middle of nowhere), my guess is when it is loading a new set of uGrids causes it. I have looting crashes, where if I kill something, then save, no matter how many times I reload I cannot loot what ever it was, but if I go back one save and kill it again, "sometimes" I can loot it just fine.

 

I think I have some "left over" textures/meshes from mods I lost when NMM lost it's mods folder (hard pc crash, when I rebooted, the entire folder was empty) as I occasionally enter an area and an NPC has "massive polygons" (not an innuendo, although sometimes that is where they are located). Some of the mods I am 80% certain are causing the problems, but have features which are core components of my toon's MO, and I am loath to continue playing without them. (yes I am still playing the same toon I started the game with, yes I have started others, no I don't want to redo some of the stuff I've already finished) after 120 game hours with one PC and I am still at the beginning of the main questline, I really do not want to trudge through some of the things I've done again.

 

I did wipe skyrim and reinstall with the DVD recently and had another issue, where I lost my install-info folder for Nexus (my fault, not a system or game crash/error), when I tried reinstalling all the mods with nexus, I ended up with an uninstall folder of 2.5GB, where it copied out all the files that were already there, even the ones that were duplicates of the ones it was installing...

 

I never had any issues with Oblivion (about 80 mods, never used any cleaners, organizers, or any apps, just downloaded files and followed the readme) or Morrowind (same deal as Oblivion, except I had closer to 400 mods and used the Creation Kit (I forget what it was called), to create massive mod files with "grouped" other mods saved into them).

 

There has to be some way to play with these mods, as out of the authors and the thousands of other people who downloaded them, someone must actually be using them. Another thing to complain about (the responsible parties will never see this though), why the h311 did Bethesda not have some kind of log file showing what was going on during game play, where you could see the references being called for debugging... They know how big the modding community is.

 

oh, I also have hearthfires and all three unofficial patches. And I am using Boss load order and I am down to 169 mods at this point (from 289), removed during troubleshooting and just determined that I don't need or won't use, or after 120 game hours on one character, still have not found.

 

my crashes first started happening anytime after the game ate up more than 1.85GB of RAM, even by 1KB and the game would crash, after the RAM patch was released in the official update, I could go over but still frequently crash when I get over 2.3GB, I keep an eye on the ram usage and save more often when it gets higher.

Edited January 28, 2013 by finndo77

[gamefever]

1st your not using mainstream mods,

 

I mean it, I never even heard of some of the mods in your lineup.

Also some of your mods are massively outdated and will not function properly with Skyrim 1.8

example your horse mod.

 

When you remove a mod, it's kinda risky. A lot of mods contain scripts, these are propblematic and removing them often means start a new game.

-Scripts stay in your save

-Scripts that get called on that are not in the scripts folder cause crashes

-Having too many scripts running causes slowdowns and crashes...Only way around this is seroius tuning on your part or just cut back on your mods and start new game.

-Never ever trust anyone that says there mod is light on scripts. Always pop open the zip file and look for yourself.

-For the most part be aware that not all script mods are running at the start of a new game.

THIS HAS SERIOUS IMPLICATIONS

-first it means that when running a lot of scripted mods your just sitting on a CTD bomb!

You'll be running along make level 30 and bam now this mod kicks in and starts applying scripted actions in the background and all of a sudden your left wondering hey it's been working for the last 50 hours and now my games fragged

-Next it means that some mods are already makeing call functions JEEESH

-Example of a mod making call functions before you've ever encountered the wonderful mod....MOST FOLLOWER MODS with elegant AI.

Many many mods that use autosorters.

-Theres so much more I could write a 10 page essay but wont

 

I've never ever trusted the clean save procedure. It's hogwash so I won't explain how.

 

Problems with saveing the game

-Everytime you save the game, the read/write portion of your harddrive has to concentrate on just that.

-Most noticably w fraps you'll see at least an FPS drop of 1/2 or greater...The problem here is that when you AUTOSAVE it's a big problem

-AUTOSAVE is terrible, you could be in an intense scripting situation and you don't know it and BLAM outta memory CtD

-Always make saves in small cell areas away from actor mobs for best results of avoiding Ctd's

 

Skyrim is an open Box world.

-This has implications not obvious to most people that play or mod.

1) even though it doesn't look like it your making seroius changes to the world over time, the cells and world spaces do not reset often enough for modded games and to make it worse some mods alter the respawn times back!!!

That's a very bad bad idea. You want cells reseting more frequently as you've progressedd into the world.

-This means smaller saves

-This means less likely to CTD on load

-This means smaller profile is better

2)This is a little known bear of a problem...How many Quests do you have???

-Quest's are not just annoying clutter in your journal. They are a sophisticated form of script that is a part of the engines hardwiring.

-Implication more quests in your journal takes up more read/write of your drive, meaning you encounter odd behavior as these buggers stack up.

-Skyrim unmodded does throw way too many quests into your active quest journal...

-A whole lot of mods actually add quests to your journal from the start without having done anything to get them. Always install those types of mods when you know your going to use them...don't just let them sit.

-worse still a lot of mods make use of behind the scenes quest's, these are most often repeatable quests that never show up in your journal...so you don't even know they are making call functions.

-Typically this tpye of script via the quest function is more stable than making or altering scripts via papyrus. But they still can cause issues.

 

Your specs,

you are way overeaching on your specs.

Simply you don't have enough RAM,

Likely don't have a good enough hard disk. which you didnt post.

With your set up I would'nt even run with texture mods.

 

There was a period of time that I didnt touch texture mods myself becuase I needed a better driver and the best driver was optimized for a Dawnguard install, to be matter o fact I only just started using 2K textures becuase of this issue

 

GTX550 ti nvdia

Hitichia don't wanna bother writing the number not a solid state drive

16G RAM

4.3 Ghz

 

basically that's the order of importance

 

VCARD w 1 G VRAM also Hard Drive faster drive faster texture fetching!

RAM you want at least 16 DDR3 fast gaming ram

CPU speed really doesnt matter much when you exceed the reccamended specs.

Edited January 28, 2013 by gamefever

[ripple]

have any suggestions for after using tes5edit?

 

Well, yeah, but one step at a time :) All of these steps are essential to the maintenance of your load order and the long term stability of the game, even if they don't fix your immediate problem, and I didn't want to inundate you with too much stuff. You have *a lot* of mods not recognized by BOSS. If you really check them in TES5Edit, it will probably take you a while, even if you are familiar with using TES5Edit, no? Alternatively, you can just uninstall some of them so you don't have to deal with the aggravation.

 

I never had any issues with Oblivion (about 80 mods, never used any cleaners, organizers, or any apps, just downloaded files and followed the readme) or Morrowind (same deal as Oblivion, except I had closer to 400 mods and used the Creation Kit (I forget what it was called), to create massive mod files with "grouped" other mods saved into them).

 

I remember Oblivion well because that was my introduction to modding. In the first months after the release of the game, when all we had was the OBMM and Wrye Bash, there were threads after threads on the Bethesda forums from users posting their load orders to try and solicit assistance to troubleshoot their CTDs or bugs. It wasn't until a long time after that some players got together and started the BOSS project, and the masterlist had to be manually downloaded from the Nexus and was updated once in a blue moon. Wrye Bash couldn't clean savegame bloating until later in its development, and until TES4Edit came on the scene, most people checked for esp conflicts in the CK--which must have took *eons.* No way to clean dirty entries, no way to quick scan records....

 

....it was not as pretty a picture as you seem to recall.

 

The other thing you have to remember is that back in Oblivion and even up until Fallout NV, we had 'overhauls' like FCOM, massive projects that was basically one giant compatibility patch for a number of big, popular mods. Those things were a nightmare to maintain for their authors. The only thing in Skyrim that comes close to that is the Scaling Stopper, which is completely outdated. The project now is to entirely automate the generation of those sort of massive compatibility patches through SkyProc utilities (clearly a more sensible and less nightmarish method).

 

Yeah, people run mods. I have 150 mods in my load order. But I also make made my own compatibility patches and invested a lot of time to make sure all those mods play nicely with each other, patches I often have to update every time those mods updates. What is it that bben's signature say? Mod users often spend as much if not more time troubleshooting and maintaining our mods? So you can run a big list of mods if you are willing to invest time to learn the trade of maintaining a clean load order and reading conflicting esp records, even scripts (when modders provide the source files). Otherwise, you will probably CTD a lot with a large load order and experience all sorts of weird anomalies if the mods are allowed to run wild on their own devices.

Edited January 28, 2013 by ripple