Eiade Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 Tyjet3: "Love thy neighbor." Does this ring a bell? Jesus was walking around saying, "Peace and Love for all", he was telling people to be good people. He taught to be considerate to people, not to love. The only love he wanted to teach was the love for god, not the love from human to human. When Jesus was being laughed at and maimed and tortured, and all the other bad stuff, he was praying for mercy on his assailants souls. Why would he want God to be merciful to someone who hated him and wanted him dead? Because he believed in loving one another. Think about it. If you truly loved someone, and they did something that mad you incredibly angry, wouldn't you eventually forgive them? And why wouldn't Jesus teach humans to love one another? You say that human nature will never allow everybody to do that. But not everybody is a good Christian. Take a look at a reverend or preacher. They are the idea of perfect Christians. And they love every human being on this earth. And if you say "Not all reverends and preachers are like that." Of course not. They aren't perfect Christians. Jesus was trying to show everybody the ideal of how the perfect Christian should act. And all of his actions were good samaritan, humanist, unselfish acts of giving. He couldn't tell the world to love God only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Just to point you to tiny mistake in your wording, Jesus certainly did not want people to show how to be good/perfect Christians because Christianity didn't exist ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander the Great Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I do not have a solid belief in a god of any kind. I would like the world to actually drop religion in its modern sense due to its complete warping from what it once was. Even hundreds of years ago religion was warped and used for wars and killing, but thats not my point. Im saying that Jesus was a good real man. Even other religions say he was there. Jesus is one of the most ambiguous figures in history and to even attemp to speak about his thoughts and how he thought we should act is stupid. If you are talking of the modern day equivalent of Jesus then Yes his message is the golden rule. It even says as much in his teachings. And yes if we followed what he said then the world would be a much better place, but good luck pulling out the salvation of the world from a morrowind forum. HAHA oh well. good idea at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandorssen Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Yes indeed, here we are now, another rousing religious debate. Jesus, I believe was probably a real man, or at least an icon for a real man, just as Arthur of Camelot was likely the icon of a real English king. Putting aside all the pseudo-mystical achievements he made, the man we refer to as Jesus was a preacher and teacher and perhaps a prophet. I have little doubt that the Romans nailed a man to a cross who was presumed to be the Jewish Messiah (as they had done countless times before and after). However, being that I am more a rational man than religious (although religion does not necessarily rule out rationality) I am more likely to believe that Jesus was perhaps an amalgamation of many men, combined and purified to represent the Son of God in a way fitting the emotions and politics of a time. It is perhaps even more damaging that the Christian Bible has been re-written and "interpreted" so many times (and to fit so many different hidden agendas) that it is difficult to know what was really written in the first place. Add to that the differing and sometimes conflicting account that the Apostles give of his life and it is even harder to find the truth. But there was truth in "his" teachings. If nothing else what he taught, according to the Bible, was not necessarily how to be a good Jew, but how to be a good person. That is his true lesson, if any is to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiade Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Morgoth: Just to point you to tiny mistake in your wording, Jesus certainly did not want people to show how to be good/perfect Christians because Christianity didn't exist True. I just meant he was showing all humans how to act, and if you want to be a good Christian, the goal is to be as much like Jesus as possible. Alexander the Great: And yes if we followed what he said then the world would be a much better place, but good luck pulling out the salvation of the world from a morrowind forum. HAHA oh well. good idea at least. That's NOT was i was expecting to do. Please don't be so cynical. Plus it's not like i'm the first one to have this idea. Vandorssen: But there was truth in "his" teachings. If nothing else what he taught, according to the Bible, was not necessarily how to be a good Jew, but how to be a good person. That is his true lesson, if any is to be had. I strongly agree. We are not here to debate the existence of Jesus or God or anything. The thing that i'm throwing up in the air for you guys to talk about is Jesus' main message: I believe that it was to love one another. Comments? Arguments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyjet3 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 he was telling people to be good people. He taught to be considerate to people, not to love. from me... If nothing else what he taught, according to the Bible, was not necessarily how to be a good Jew, but how to be a good person. That is his true lesson, if any is to be had. from Vandorssen... What is the difference? None... Yet, Eiade, you agree with vandorssen and disagree with me. I basically said the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberBender Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I think that Alex is right. Any modern day beliefs are so far different than the originals that they are nothing alike. The Catholic church of England (of course not just them but they were the biggest offender) constantly used and changed the Bible message(s) to fit thier own political needs. Over the course of the years how can we expect the Bible to be anything like what it once was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albareth Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Shouldn't this be in debates? I've spent way too much time discussing things like these back and forth already on the Atheist Network Forums, so I'll skip actually replying for now. ;) Just one point though, assuming Jesus was indeed a real person, as all evidence points to, and bringing the message he did... am I the only one who feels the irony of how badly the church has done in upholding these ideals, whether or not the religion itself is true or not, simply done badly upholding the basic ideals he tried to present? Seems to me it's not only ironic, but hypocritical, how some people following a religion of this kind (promoting peace, trying to be vague here) can act the precise opposite of its teachings and condemn non-believers who DO follow these ideals, just not under the name of their own religion. I sincerely doubt Jesus the philisopher, whether or not you believe or he actually is or isn't the son of god, would be happy with how that simple message has been perverted at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnoc Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Bravo Albareth, exactly what I think. I don't no what Jesus would say if he would come back today and see what we (meaning the Christians) have done in his name and in the name of his teachings. I don't know how someone can read "Love your enemies", then go and kill someone and say "in the name of Jesus" (like the crusaders or the inquisitors did). I can not understand, how you can misinterpret the teachings in the way it was done. When you really look at what Jesus said, there is not a lot space for intepretation, when including the historic and textual context. I personnally think that Jesus would be good friends with the hippies, because they believe almost the same as he did (Make love not war!). He would certainly not be good friends with the conservative Christians who act "in his name" and say that their actions are based on the bible. Jesus would probably react to them the same way as he did towards the Pharisees. Jesus taught love and tolerance. What the conservative people say is exactly the opposite. How can they dare to use the name of a person who taught love and tolerance as argument for their teachings of hate and intolerance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyjet3 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 How can they dare to use the name of a person who taught love and tolerance as argument for their teachings of hate and intolerance? This is very true... Almost all christians are hipocrits (i know i spelt that wrong...). But you have to remember what the bible said, (and by the way i am not christian, i just know my "history") Jesus may have taught peace amongst all but the only love he taught was love for god. In the christian religion, the only true love is love for god. all other love is not true love. That is what the bible clearly states. And that is the argument here. Jesus didn't promote love to people, he taught love to god, and god only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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