Skyrim Holds Boundaries

[plunket]

In the real world, boundaries are made where there is some kind of natural object that clearly separates one place from another - a river, a lake, a mountain range, a canyon, for example. Or at least a straight line going North/South or East/West. So what are the boundaries for the holds of Skyrim based on? They seem arbitrary and impossible to apply or enforce, just drawn onto a map randomly. I'd like to be wrong about that so if you can show me that I misunderstand, please do. Thanks.

[jack013]

i think they're just land dished out by the high king guy.

[fortie]

I guess you look at them like you do a normal city

I'm from a place called Ballarat in Australia so I will use this is an example.

You have the city (Ballarat) or in this case Skyrim as the whole lot

Then you have suburbs of the city (redan, delacombe, ballarat north) which In this case the "suburbs" are holds eastmarch, the pale, the rift. Nothing really defines these different areas they just sort of merge

[plunket]

Thanks for responding but it doesn't really hit what I mean. I mean look at the line that separates Hjaalmarch from the Pale, for example. It seems to cross over the middle of mountains or wherever...it would be impossible for anyone in Skyrim to know even approximately where the borders are, or which hold they currently stand in, unless they are in a city or other poi. It doesn't make sense.

[893kira]

Because Hold Guards have psychic ability. Also High King and Jarls doesn't give a damn thing. Only Stewards do all the job maintaining the Hold.

[plunket]

I'm thinking someone just scrawled lines on the map and never gave it a thought.

[gotenwarrior61]

Just taking a quick look at the map I think I can justify a few:

-- Whiterun's western border looks like it could be estimated to be say 50 just off the road or so

-- Can't imagine the argument the Jarl of Falkreath would've had to give to get the 4-way intersection in his NW border yet only having one of the roads in his hold

-- Looks like Eastmarch's northern border could be the base of the mountains just north of the city

-- Whiterun wanted Throat of the World but not Lake Geir, than The Rift's jarl might've asked for room for a town on the shore of the lake

-- Haafingar / Hjaalmarch seems pretty obvious through the northern part of the Karth river

-- With Hjaalmarch's western much like Whiterun's: a short distance off the river/road running north-south

-- It also looks like they screwed Winterhold by giving them all the mountains (which would obviously be the least inabitable/fertile)

 

That's the best justification I could make-up, hope it helps.

 

Used the UESP's map of Skyrim

Edited February 3, 2013 by gotenwarrior61

[David Brasher]

The hold boundaries are just nonsensical and someone scrawled them on the map in five minutes so they could meet a deadline.

 

In real life, political boundaries tend to follow areas where strong political control can be exerted. Capitals are often centrally located. Failing that, there are often firmly loyal cities and towns in the controlled political areas which extend the control far beyond the reach of the capital.

 

But Skyrim is in a state of anarchy. Bandits and monsters rule most of it. The only places you see guards and soldiers are the big cities, a few small villages, and a few forts. So if I was to draw a political map of Skyrim, I would draw little circles around each town with dotted lines rather than solid lines. In addition to the name of the town, I would write the name of its ruler's hold capital in parenthesis. Like how small islands on a world map may have a notation such as (United Kingdom) or (France.) The lines around towns would be dotted instead of solid to indicated "boundary undefined" such as it is with certain boundaries in the desert on the Arabian peninsula.

[Lachdonin]

Any important thing to remember with any boundries in a TES game, is you only have part of the picture. There are a lot more towns, forts and locations in Skyrim than we see in game. Look at Daggerfall and you may get an idea of what i mean.

 

That said, the boundries (assuming an in-universe perspective and not the meta-perspective stating everything was just scribbled on a map) are likely inclusive of all the territories owing fealty to a particular Jarl. Beyond those towns, forts, monasteries etc we can assume that the actual 'border' denotes what is within easy patrol distance for the Hold forces. Since we also know that the Holds have a tendancy to fight amongst themselves, particularly when there isn't a clear High King, these borders are probably pretty fluid.

 

As for it not making sense how anyone knows where they were... Welcome to the pre-industrial age. In the middle ages, you could wander through Europe, never sure where exactly you were. The Crusades did it several times, getting lost on their way to the Holy Land. Nagivation is hard without accurate maping and GPS. Get used to it.

[plunket]

Thank you but your answer does not satisfy. And is rude.