Yet another person with CTD issues

[kenseirabbit]

So I have just spent the last couple days meticulously picking through the Nexus trying to build my own Lore-Friendly Mod list and I like to try and put as much as I can into it stopping just short of the 255 esp/esm limit. (I'm sitting at 314 active total, 18 ESM's, 236 ESP's, and 60 ESL's)

I don't usually have issues and I have done plenty and I mean PLENTY of modlists over the years (not really an expert but I have become familiar with how it works by now) but I am

stumped, I CTD when I try to start a new game and I can't for the life of me figure out why. I have run LOOT to check for any Errors and I have a single one saying that I don't need THbrows.esp

because I have Looks Menu Compendium (But I do because of the Loving Piper mod but this has never caused issues before) ANYWAY here is my Load Order maybe someone with higher knowledge

than I can figure this out.

[LucidLady]

First things first - are you able to start a new game without any mods installed at all?

Secondly - are you able to convert any of your ESPs into ESL-Flagged ESPs? It's a very simple process, literally just a few clicks with FO4Edit.

ESL-Flagged ESPs have all the bonuses of a flat-out ESL (in that they don't take up one of the 255 plugin limit spots), plus the bonus of being an ESP (in that you can move it wherever you like in the load order, freely). They function just like a regular ESP, but miraculously don't count toward the limit. You should try and flag any mod you install with an ESL-Flag as soon as you download it.

 

Your load order looks very messy. Not the worst i've seen, but it could use some work. I don't see anything immediately that's an obvious conflict, but it's hard to make sense of as-is.

Are you allowing LOOT to control your load order? If so - stop. LOOT is just plain ineffective if you have anywhere close to 1oo mods. If you have more than a dozen or so mods, you'll need to organize your load order manually. LOOT is still a useful tool - it's great for detecting mods which need a little cleaning (easy to do with FO4Edit's quitk-auto-clean tool). But it's a really shitty load order organizer.

 

Also - you are using UFO4Patch. Please try disabling it before anything else. UFO4Patch is similar to LOOT - it will break your game if you have anywhere near 1oo mods. ALOT of people have been having trouble from UFO4Patch lately - and disabling it either causes no ill effects, or is the single solution. UFO4Patch works best with a lightly (or non) modded game. It should not be installed as a baseline - as a default.

 

I also have over 31o mods at the moment, and my game runs nearly flawlessly. I don't allow LOOT to organize my LO, and I never use UFO4Patch. In fact, I think I even resolved the one and only flaw my game ever had (crashing a fraction of the time while trying to do a new save), my game has run entirely flawlessly for a week or so.

 

Here's how I structure my own Load Order. If none of the simpler solutions I mentioned before seem to work, try re-organizing your load order to match this -

 

First - the mods that snap to the top of your load order no matter what, can't really organize those.
Second - Settlement mods
- - - - - Mods that add new settlements
- - - - - Followed by mods that alter settlement functionality [more build limit, unlocked dlc buildable objects, etc]
- - - - - Followed by mods that add buildable items to the build-mode menu
- - - - - Followed by Patches for build mode mods
Third - Mods that tweak and alter the game in broad little ways
- - - - - Changes to sneak mechanics, Cell respawn timers, Combat damage variables, Faction tweaks, Quicktrade, Player comments, things like that.
- - - - - Auto-Looting mods, Mods that make Radstags friendly, Mods like Chill Pill, No Death Weapon Drop, Level Cap, Edits to how Melee combat works
- - - - -
Fourth - Mods that add NPCs to locations
- - - - - Goodneighbor Neighborhood Watch, NPCs Travel, Dr Goodneighbor, Better Goodneighbor and Better Third Rail, etc.
Fifth - Quest Mods.
- - - - - Start with the bigger quest mods and place smaller quest mods beneath them.
- - - - - Combat Zone Restored goes here, too.
- - - - - If you have any patches between quest mods, place them where appropriate in this section.
Sixth - Settlement Overhaul mods -> Mods that alter the Settlement Framework in any way
- - - - - This might seem like an odd location for these types of mods, but go with it.
- - - - - Anything that cleans up a settlement, or makes it look entirely different.
- - - - - Also if you have any mods which add special, unique NPCs to a base-game, or new settlement goes here.
- - - - - Mods that remove invisible markers from settlements
- - - - - Mods that add new settlers
- - - - - Mods like Conquest or Portable Workshop
- - - - - Transfer Settlements goes here
- - - - - Mods that make Home Plate (and similar settlements) into Full settlements
- - - - - No Random Mercer Safehouse mod
Seventh - Companion related mods, and any mods that alter or replace NPCs.
- - - - - Start with NPC replacers
- - - - - Followed by invisible companion tweaks -> Visible Companion Affinity, Dialogue tweaks, Additional Followers
- - - - - Followed by mods that alter NPC looks -> New Robot parts, Companion makeovers
- - - - - Followed by mods that alter NPCs on a large scale -> Named Settlers, Settler Makeovers
Eighth - Animations and sounds
- - - - - Start with mods that add vehicles which you can ride
- - - - - Animated drinking or smoking
- - - - - Animated sex mods
- - - - - Mods that change how weapons sound
- - - - - Mods that alter player's voice or other NPC voices
- - - - - Mods that add new animations to walking or all rifles or all pistols or all 1hand melee weapons
- - - - - 3rd person movement altering mods
Ninth - Weather and lighting
- - - - - Anything that effects timescale in the game counts
- - - - - CLO Custom Lighting Overhaul or other ENBs go here
- - - - - Mods that remove shadows for performance
- - - - - Nightvision altering mods
- - - - - Godray removers or enhancers
- - - - - More Grass mods
- - - - - Mods that change textures in game, to increase performance or make bricks look better or something.
Tenth - Style mods
- - - - - Start with anything affecting NPC heights
- - - - - Hair and makeup -> New eyes
- - - - - CBBE comes next -> Followed by Skin replacers
- - - - - Looksmenu comes next -> Followed by Overlays and Customization Compendium
- - - - - Pip-pad or other Pipboy altering mods comes next
Eleventh - Weapons
- - - - - Straightforward. If it adds a new weapon to the game, put it here.
- - - - - If the weapon adds new animations, put it at the bottom of this section
Twelfth - Armor and Clothing
- - - - - If it is equip-able to your character from the Armor section, it goes here.
- - - - - This doesn't include mods which work like a toggle (like CLO Remote) from the equip section.
- - - - - If the armor or clothing has additional, special script effects, put it at the bottom of this section.
- - - - - If it's a clothing patch, it goes here. Like something that alters how NPCs dress on a wide scale. [Like Hookers of the Commonwealth patch to make them stop wearing EasyGirl outfits]
Thirteenth - Armor and Weapon Framework altering mods
- - - - - UCO, Armorsmith Extended, Wacky Weapons Workshop, New Legendary Effects,
Fourteenth - Finally, any mods that are finicky. Mods that have trouble working if not placed beneath everything else. Or mods that you want to make SURE work. Mods with heavy, frequently-used scripts.
- - - - - Outfit Switcher, FO4Hotkeys, Cheat Terminal, Custom Camera, Console mods, Item Sorting mods, ESP Explorer, Mods that alter how you eat/drink
- - - - - Finally, any mods which specifically state to place them beneath everything. Race Customizer is the most popular example.

 

 

And here's my entire current load order, if you want to see this structure in action - see more exact specific examples -

 

GameMode=Fallout4

Fallout4.esm=1
DLCRobot.esm=1
DLCworkshop01.esm=1
DLCCoast.esm=1
DLCworkshop02.esm=1
DLCworkshop03.esm=1
DLCNukaWorld.esm=1
ccbgsfo4042-bfg.esl=1
cceejfo4001-decorationpack.esl=1
ccbgsfo4045-advarccab.esl=1
ccfsvfo4003-slocum.esl=1
ccsbjfo4001-solarflare.esl=1
cckgjfo4001-bastion.esl=1
ccrzrfo4002-disintegrate.esl=1
ccbgsfo4116-heavyflamer.esl=1
ccbgsfo4040-vrworkshop01.esl=1
ccfsvfo4005-vrdesertisland.esl=1
ccfsvfo4006-vrwasteland.esl=1
ccfsvfo4004-vrworkshopgnrplaza.esl=1
cctosfo4002_neonflats.esm=1
ccbgsfo4117-capmerc.esl=1
ccbgsfo4046-tescan.esl=1
ccgcafo4025-pagunmm.esl=1
unlockedsettlementobjects.esm=1
ArmorKeywords.esm=1
HUDFramework.esm=1
NPCScaling.esm=1
cheat room.esm=1
Bandolier.esl=1
Blowtorch.esl=1
Bridgeway Bank LCTN fix.esl=1
SC-SanctuaryCrash-redux.esl=1
MoreDisplayableItems.esl=1
MTM-CliffsEdgeHotelWallFix.esl=1
Goodneighbor - BobbysPlace.esl=1
ActivateLongnecks.esl=1
Compact - CroupManorBasementWorkshop.esl=1
Glock86.esl=1
MirelurkGauntlet.esl=1
CreateFollowers.esm=1
CROSS_CosmeticFramework.esm=1
four_play_resources.esm=1
ClassicSuperSledge.esl=1
TBOS-RaiderNormalFixMale.esl=1
TBOSBodyTalk2LooksMenu.esl=1
Neon Flats Shortcut - Hacked.esl=1
EasyCitySettlement.esl=1
B85NeonUnlock.esl=1
FalloutInstrumentPack.esl=1
Warren Theater Settlement.esl=1
PortableBunker.esl=1
EndlessSettlement.esl=0
Arbitration - Resources.esm=1
nuka_world_settlements.esp=1
CreateFollowersDLCAddon.esp=1
BostonFPSFixAIO.esp=1
unlockedsettlementobjectssp.esp=1
AutoDoors.esp=1
SnapBeds.esp=1
SwitchboxGenerator 10.esp=1
SettleObjExpandPack.esp=1
BorderJunk.esp=1
TD_DLC01Workshop_Addons.esp=1
OCDecorator.esp=1
OCDecoratorDLC.esp=1
OCDispenser.esp=1
Iron_FusionCoreCombiner.esp=1
vault_door_fixed.esp=1
DD_Khassar_De_Templari_Increased_build.esp=1
AkaInvisibleFurniture.esp=1
woodysWastelandStuff.esp=1
WDP-PC.esp=1
Housekeeping.esp=1
Crimsomrider's Unique Furniture.esp=1
Snappy_HouseK.esp=1
Snappy_DLC03.esp=1
Snappy_DecoKit.esp=1
Snappy_HouseKit_AutoDoors.esp=1
Northland Diggers New.esp=1
KURO.esp=1
TheMobileMechanic.esp=1
InstaBell.esp=1
NWM_VVITCH_HAUS.esp=1
SettlementMenuManager.esp=1
WorkshopRearranged.esp=1
CompactCrafting.esp=1
JustDebris.esp=1
RBHancockMayoralPortrait.esp=1
SettleObjExpandPack-AutoDoorsPatch.esp=1
Snappy DLC kits-AutodoorsPatch.esp=1
Snappy_HouseK-AutodoorsPatch.esp=1
WorkshopRearranged_AutoDoors_Patch.esp=1
WorkshopRearranged_CompactCrafting_Patch.esp=1
WorkshopRearranged_Instabell_Patch.esp=1
WorkshopRearranged_JustDebris_Patch.esp=1
WorkshopRearranged_ArcadeCabinets_Patch.esp=1
WorkshopRearranged_SlocumsJoe_Patch.esp=1
WorkshopRearranged_DecorationsPack_Patch.esp=1
unlockedsettlementobjects_menuoverride.esp=1
uso_boost_patch.esp=1
Vinfamy_CP.esp=1
Alex's Faster Respawning Cells.esp=1
More Radiation - Envionment-Water.esp=1
LegendaryShadersMessagesSoundRemoved.esp=1
TinyTweak_SneakPerkMineImmunityOff.esp=1
sneak.esp=1
killmove-100.esp=1
MeleeFinishersRebalance.esp=1
3pMeleeTweak.esp=1
StabAnim4All.esp=1
Bashing killmoves enabled.esp=1
Better Bash.esp=1
Improved Bash.esp=1
BrawlerMelee.esp=1
combatworkbenchrobot.esp=1
Jack's Disable Quick Loot.esp=1
ClassicRadPoisoning.esp=1
NoDeathWeaponDrop.esp=1
AshGooPilesAwayV1.5.esp=1
UltraRareFusionCoresAndStimpaks.esp=1
AdrenalineDisabled.esp=1
Lootman.esp=1
ChillPill.esp=1
PiperCaitCurieDialogueOverhaul.esp=1
More Active AI.esp=1
LevelCap.esp=1
QuickConsume.esp=1
QuickTrade.esp=1
PlayerComments.esp=1
PlayerComments_3DNPC_FO4_Patch.esp=1
PlayerComments_PiperCaitCurieDialogueOverhaul_Patch.esp=1
StoreAllJunk_SeasonPassEdition.esp=1
Carry Weight - Thorforce.esp=1
FriendlyRadstags.esp=1
Conquestors Cannibal overhaul.esp=1
RadcureCannibal.esp=1
zGorski.esp=1
DrGoodneighbor.esp=1
NeighborWatch.esp=1
FO4 NPCs Travel.esp=1
AtomicRadio.esp=1
WorkshopRearranged_AtomicRadio_Patch.esp=1
3DNPC_FO4.esp=1
3DNPC_FO4_DLC.esp=1
nvvault1080.esp=1
OutcastsAndRemnants.esp=1
CrimeTown.esp=1
sectorv.esp=1
CombatZoneRestored.esp=1
PlayerComments_CZRPatch.esp=1
FS_NukaTownUSARestored.esp=1
trainbar.esp=1
NoTrain.esp=1
AA FusionCityRising.esp=1
AA FusionCityRising - HotC.esp=1
AGNISNikaCola01.esp=1
Depravity.esp=1
VMod-Master.esp=0
FarHarborStory.esp=1
Firelance2.5.esp=1
MaxwellsWorl.esp=1
Penske Fertilizer Fix.esp=1
The Metro.esp=1
cat_wildlands.esp=1
ProjectValkyrie.esp=1
TeleportThuggyverseCompanions.esp=1
AbernathyFarmOverhaul v1.0.esp=1
coastal-cottage-clean-01.esp=1
FyTy - RaiderCommunications.esp=1
Remove-Slog-Hoe.esp=1
Remove-Slog-BerryGathering.esp=1
3DNPC_FO4Settler.esp=1
Portable_Workshop_Enhanced.esp=1
Conquest.esp=1
TransferSettlements.esp=1
NoRandomMercer.esp=1
neonflatsfullsettlement.esp=1
SOTS.esp=1
VoodoosMutantReplacer.esp=0
SKKFeralReplacementSystem.esp=1
SKKFastStart.esp=1
SKKRESystemManager.esp=1
SKKUnlockCompanions.esp=1
PainTrain_NoPA_NoStaggerChanges.esp=1
bugfix_maglocks_terminal_delay.esp=1
VisibleCompanionAffinity.esp=1
FollowersExtended.esp=1
CompanionHealThyself.esp=1
CompanionWhistle.esp=1
RBMonogamy.esp=1
RBCaitTalk.esp=1
ModdableRobotSettlers.esp=1
MsAutomatronPartsCollection.esp=1
GhoulPiper.esp=1
MacDreamy v0.3.esp=1
Settler_named_Clem.esp=1
Third Person Movement Speed Fix.esp=1
Arbitration - Button Lowered Weapons.esp=1
Driveable Motorcycle Mod.esp=1
ThrowableContainer_v3.esp=1
Animated Drinking.esp=1
AnimChemRedux.esp=1
four_play.esp=1
4PlaySEU.esp=1
FO4_AnimationsByLeito.esp=1
FP_FamilyPlanning.esp=1
FP_FamilyPlanningEnhanced.esp=1
FaceLight.esp=1
PlayerVoiceFrequencySlider.esp=1
VeryShortNights_With_DLC_v1.esp=1
Far Harbor Style Commonwealth.esp=1
CLO - Custom Lighting Overlay.esp=1
LightsDontCastShadows.esp=1
BetterNightVision.esp=1
FyTy - No Godrays.esp=1
Insignificant Object Remover.esp=1
Actor Scale Remover.esp=1
KSHairdosExtra.esp=1
KSHairdos.esp=1
AzarPonytailHairstyles.esp=1
GR002-UnladylikeWithFuzz.esp=1
ZellaHairDye.esp=1
EyesoftheUniverse.esp=1
Ghoul Eyes.esp=1
CBBE.esp=1
CBBEHeadRearFix.esp=0
ImprovedSkin.esp=1
RB_basicskins.esp=1
LooksMenu.esp=1
OverlaySample.esp=1
LMBTOverlays.esp=1
LMNSOverlays.esp=1
LooksMenu Customization Compendium.esp=1
PIP-Pad.esp=1
PIP-Pad_LMCC.esp=1
ArmLaserGun.esp=1
HydrantBat.esp=1
Skibs-WHMk22Redux.esp=1
Glock86.esp=0
T6MGatPistol.esp=1
Moddable Plasma Caster.esp=1
lasercannon.esp=1
PortableMinutemenArtillery.esp=1
FISTICHUCKS!.esp=1
GS Vorpal Blade Returns.esp=1
Kungfumaster.esp=1
FalloutSamurai.esp=1
Impact Grenades.esp=1
Schlong.esp=1
HN66Fo4_EasyGirl_BS.esp=1
HN66Fo4_Nails.esp=1
FemsheppingsWastelandDrifterMaleOutfits.esp=1
HotC_ClothesPatch.esp=1
Grim_Bowsette.esp=1
Grim_BowsetteBodysuit.esp=1
FrenchMaidFO4-CBBEPhysics.esp=1
Grim_MegamilkMk2.esp=1
AsharaFO4Steampunk.esp=0
NezzarLingerieCollection.esp=1
Witch3Pack-CBBEPhysics.esp=1
BelthanClothes.esp=1
Headcrab_Bunny.esp=1
WastelandFashionBandanasBlindfolds.esp=1
CROSS_Uni_Headset.esp=1
CROSS_Jetpack.esp=1
CROSS_eyepatch.esp=1
RadRing.esp=1
Piezonucleic_Fix.esp=1
ASA.esp=1
TWB Outfits.esp=1
TTOutfit.esp=1
Eli_AlecusRogueHD.esp=1
TERASuccubusMashup.esp=1
Tina's Candy Land.esp=1
Absolutely_Headwear.esp=1
Pastel Wigs.esp=1
LucidLadyClothes1.esp=1
Skimpy Attire For Male.esp=1
PortableContainer.esp=1
PortableWorkbench.esp=1
Armorsmith Extended.esp=1
Evil Detective Outfit.esp=1
Toxic Raider Armour.esp=1
Crimsomrider's Accessories.esp=1
Crimsomrider's Catwoman.esp=1
clothingoverhaul.esp=1
ClothingOverhaulSP_XB1_PC.esp=1
wackyweaponsworkshopsp.esp=1
GKX Truly Legendary.esp=1
SOTS_AWKCR_AS_Patch.esp=1
PseudoLengendaryTech.esp=1
CraftingFramework.esp=1
CraftingFrameworkExtreme.esp=1
CraftingFrameworkAWKCR2.esp=1
msf.esp=0
Stashable Caps.esp=1
CapsWidget.esp=1
OutfitSwitcher.esp=1
CheatTerminal.esp=1
MedKit.esp=1
Kor_SitDisabler.esp=1
CustomCamera.esp=1
WmkActiveEffects.esp=1
FO4Hotkeys.esp=1
Buy Building Materials Anywhere.esp=1
ValdacilsItemSorting-00-ValsPicks-DLCVersion-VanillaWeight.esp=1
LucidEditz o1.esp=1
LucidEditz o2.esp=1
LucidLadyEdits3.esp=1
LucidEditz o4.esp=1
ESPExplorerFO4.esp=1
HighlightConsoleReference.esp=1
RaceCustomizer.esp=1
RaceCustomizer - Player Exclusive Body.esp=1
RaceCustomizer - Far Harbor Compatibility Patch.esp=1
RaceCustomizer - Fusion City Rising Compatibility Patch.esp=1
RaceCustomizer - Maxwells World Compatibility Patch.esp=1
RaceCustomizer - LMCC Compatibility Patch.esp=1
AnimeRace_Nanako.esp=1
AnimeRace_NPC Level Scaling_Compatibility Patch.esp=1

 

Notice how many look like simple ESPs? You can't tell the ones which are flagged with the ESL flag. More than 170 of them are flagged as ESL.

Edited August 29, 2020 by LucidLady

[Blinxys]

That's a wild LO, LucidLady! :pinch:

(Mods i ain' never even heard or thought of, gonna look into a few of those). :thumbsup:

 

Just to add to your simplifying LO theme...

 

I have had fair success copying as override patches for mods into the main mod.

As in mod-y has a patch for mod-x, deep copy override that patch into mod-y or as new record as the case may be.

(since those are the settings mod-y will always be using anyway).

 

It's a work in progress but it saves space and makes more visual sense, especially if you have 2-3 patches for several different mods.

(The computer/game has to compute less = better performance).

 

Has mostly helped figuring out how best to utilize FO4edit- keeping local (manual) install files makes it generally non-destructive, if not reversible.

In the end it should fairly eliminate the need for merged, smash or zpatch, or make conflict resolution real simple to sort out. :sleep:

 

Another premise I've been using for LO is static/global/constant to dynamic/local/variable.

 

Meaning:

If it usually exists sitting still world-wide or is always "just there" set it early, i.e. game settings> utilities> weather> known pois> added poi's> lootables> lighting> settlement objects>...

However, little things affected rapidly/infrequently changing or moving comes late in the load i.e.weapons> looks> clothing> NPCs> animations> quests> active scripts get the last word/overwrite subsequently.

Going from general to specifics.

 

Also making a custom mega-merge of tiny game settings "fixes" into a single esp.

 

Will take you at your word and look into if UFO4P is the cause of any troubles, none that are obvious yet.

 

368 Total Mods = 248 Active Plugins (adding, revising and stabilizing).

 

EDIT: altered priorities based on Fading Signals statement:

"Whenever you add something to an interior cell, like I do with the ration cases, the 'header' data that contains the lighting and fog values is copied into the plug-in. This cannot be avoided. All that means is that if you are using a mod like my Interiors Enhanced, or other light mods like Enhanced Lights and FX, or Ultra Interior Lighting, just make sure those load AFTER this plugin so I don't revert the values back to vanilla."

And having opened LMCC in FO4edit all anims are defined for human race, so any alterations to anims should go AFTER that in order to overwrite.

(Such is life).

Edited August 31, 2020 by Blinxys