Mass Freezes And Crashes

[ripple]

Just got home. Did you get Wrye Bash working? Go ahead and clean the esp's and esm's flagged by BOSS as containing 'dirty edits', including the DLC and patch esm's. After I get some food I'll post back with more suggestions.

 

Ok.

 

So your load order is pretty large (I am not just talking about the number of mods, but the scale of edits made by big mods). It's very difficult to ensure the long term stability a large load order. A new game could be stable for hours, even days, then inexplicable CTDs and time wasted in trying to track down the cause. What's worse is that with Skyrim, when people yank mods out of their load order to try to stabilize a game (a common reaction I've seen too often), it actually make things worse because mods leave orphan junk in save games. Just want to make sure you are properly warned.

 

With respect to your load order, you should remove the optional plugins you've disabled (for the cloaks of skyrim, for example). They don't get loaded but they do get scanned by the game during load up and there is no point extending the game loading time even by a millisecond. Use Wrye Bash to handle leveled lists, it's much simpler and cleaner.

Edited February 8, 2013 by ripple

[ArchAngelAlien]

I've changed my mod lists around a lot since then, and also changed back to NMM as I just spent too much time trying to deal with MO and learn how it works. I am still in the process of finalizing my game, and getting everything straightened out. I will begin working on those ESPs that are not active and delete them. I still have not touched Wrye bash, and don't really know how to make a level list. I will post you my new BOSS loadout here within the hour. Just fine tuning some things.

[ArchAngelAlien]

So this is where I am at:

 

SKSE Plugins:

 

SKSE Version: 0.1.6.6

CFM_extensions.dll

SKSE_Elys_Uncapper.dll Version: 1.14.3.0

 

 

Unrecognised Plugins:

 

 

WATER Plants.esp Active

KWTelescope.esp Active

lilithsobliterator3_0.esp Active

Crossbows_Basic_Collection_EN_LL.esp Active

SkyMoPets.esp Active

ReProccerNONPLAYERfix.esp Active

manny Lantern Caretakers.esp Active

Dead Body Collision.esp Active

mjhKhajiitSpeakMod - NPC Bartering.esp Active

mjhKhajiitSpeakMod - The Choice Is Yours.esp Active

mjhKhajiitSpeakMod - Convenient Horses.esp Active

mjhKhajiitSpeakMod - Hoth.esp Active

mjhKhajiitSpeakMod - Realistic Needs And Diseases.esp Active

mjhKhajiitSpeakMod - The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp Active

 

 

Recognised Plugins:

 

Skyrim.esm Active

Update.esm Active

Contains dirty edits: 73 ITM, 1 UDR records with 3.0.28. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

Dawnguard.esm Active

Contains dirty edits: 607 ITM, 82 UDR records with 3.0.28. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}

HearthFires.esm Active

Contains dirty edits: 171 ITM, 11 UDR records with 3.0.28. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

ApachiiHair.esm Active

ApachiiHairFemales.esm Active

ApachiiHairMales.esm Active

ClimatesOfTamriel.esm Active

Contains dirty edits: 4 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

JSwords.esm Active

Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm Active

SkyMoMod.esm Active

SPIKE.esm Active

HighResTexturePack01.esp Active

HighResTexturePack02.esp Active

HighResTexturePack03.esp Active

DaedricShieldHiResFix.esp Active

Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp Active

Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}

HighResTexturePackFix.esp Active

Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp Active

Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}

Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp Active

Chesko_Frostfall.esp Active

Better Dynamic Snow.esp Active

LIAT - Sounds.esp Active

Contains dirty edits: 43 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

StaticMeshImprovementMod.esp Active

83Willows_101BUGS_V4_HighRes_HighSpawn.esp Active

Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}

ApachiiHelmetWigs.esp Active

Birdsofskyrim.esp Active

Contains dirty edits: 31 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

CalienteVanillaArmorTweaks.esp Active

Chesko_WearableLantern.esp Active

DSpSoB.esp Active

Requires: Neovalen Race Compatibility.esp

Note: Make sure you use Dawnguard version.

GuessDistance.esp Active

Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Climates of Tamriel - default.esp Active

Note: Use only one Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One esp.

LIAT - NPCs.esp Active

Contains dirty edits: 3 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

People Have Torches.esp Active

SabreFurBag.esp Active

skyBirds - Airborne Perching Birds.esp Active

Contains dirty edits: 3 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

Skymo-Dawn.esp Active

Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev}}

Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp Active

Convenient Horses.esp Active

DYNAVISION Dynamic Depth of Field.esp Active

Note: Make sure you have not switched DoF off in your ini file. If you don't see any effect, open you Skyrimprefs.ini and look for 'bDoDepthOfField'. Make sure it is set to 1.

Footprints.esp Active

IMAGINATOR - Visual Control for Skyrim.esp Active

WetandCold.esp Active

SkyUI.esp Active

iHUD.esp Active

Bandanas of Skyrim.esp Active

Cloaks.esp Active

Contains dirty edits: 4 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

1nivWICCloaks.esp Active

Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Relev}}

1nivWICSkyCloaksPatch.esp Active

Contains dirty edits: 4 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

Dread Knight Weapon Set.esp Active

dwarvenrifle.esp Active

hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp Active

Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}

JSwordsDistributionBalancePlugin.esp Active

lilithscarver3_0.esp Active

lilithsdisemboweler.esp Active

lilithssickle.esp Active

Silverlight Armor.esp Active

Dr_Bandolier.esp Active

HarvestOverhaul.esp Active

HarvestOverhaulDawnguard.esp Active

Lock Overhaul.esp Active

DeadlyDragons.esp Active

Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}

PumpingIron.esp Active

Run For Your Lives.esp Active

When Vampires Attack.esp Active

Sweet&Sexy Lingerie.esp Active

Requires: CBBE

The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp Active

AchieveThat.esp Active

Babette.esp Active

Contains dirty edits: 8 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

Headtracking.esp Active

Immersive Weapons.esp Active

Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev}}

Proper Aiming.esp Active

SFO - Expanded Diversity.esp Active

Note: Uninstall old version of Skyrim Flora Overhaul if using SFO - Expanded Diversity.esp

SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esp Active

dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp Active

dD-Dawnguard-MonsterMod EBT Patch.esp Active

TheChoiceIsYours.esp Active

TheChoiceIsYours_Dawnguard.esp Active

torches for realistic lighting.esp Active

The Autumn of Whiterun.esp Active

Populated Cities 2.esp Active

Contains dirty edits: 59 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

RealisticRoomRental.esp Active

RRR_Hearthfire-Patch.esp Active

Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Illuminated Spells.esp Active

Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Dungeons.esp Active

Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Minor Cities & Town Interiors.esp Active

Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Major City Interiors.esp Active

ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp Active

dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp Active

Note: Ragdolls will conflict with other mods that change the skeleton.nif. Check Custom Skeleton Replacers for compatibly with other skeleton.nif.

Better Vampires.esp Active

Predator Vision.esp Active

ToL_Core_by_Brevi.esp Active

ToL_SKSE_by_Brevi.esp Active

Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp Active

Nature of the beast.esp Active

Note: Obsolete. Update to the latest version.

DeadlySpellImpacts.esp Active

dovahkiinrelax.esp Active

Even Smaller Spell Light Radius.esp Active

SustainedSpells.esp Active

Better Stealth AI for Followers.esp Active

Dual Wield Parrying_SKSE.esp Active

Note: Use only one Dual Wield Parrying*.esp

Locational Damage.esp Active

The Dance of Death - Dawnguard Edition.esp Active

TKDodge.esp Active

ACE BYOG.esp Active

No Skill Limit.esp Active

vDynamicDifficulty.esp Active

SkyRe_Main.esp Active

Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Relev, Delev}}Warning: The SkyRe has many conflicts with other mods. Please read the readme before playing with mod. This will prevent many problems. Read it here.

 

Note: If lockpicikng is not work then try to delete 'interface\lockpickingmenu.swf'

Note: If you have a problem with aiming try to install this mod.

Note: To make aiming easier, recommend to add the following lines to Skyrim.ini:

Note: [Actor]

Note: fVisibleNavmeshMoveDist=12288.0000

Note: [Combat]

Note: f1PArrowTiltUpAngle=0.64

Note: f3PArrowTiltUpAngle=0.64

Note: fMagnetismStrafeHeadingMult=0.0

Note: fMagnetismLookingMult=0.0

SkyRe_Combat.esp Active

SkyRe_CraftingFix.esp Active

SkyRe_EnemyScaling.esp Active

Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Relev}}

SkyRe_Survivalism.esp Active

Contains dirty edits: 3 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

BatTravel.esp Active

HarvestOverhaulSkyReCompatibility.esp Active

Beards.esp Active

TheEyesOfBeauty.esp Active

3DNPC.esp Active

RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp Active

RND_Dawnguard-Patch.esp Active

RND_HearthFires-Patch.esp Active

RND_SkyMoMod-Patch.esp Active

RND_USKP-Patch.esp Active

HothFollower.esp Active

UFO - Ultimate Follower Overhaul.esp Active

Note: For safe install need dismiss all your followers, save, delete all included mods, load again, save and install UFO. For safe uninstall or update see special instructions on mod page.

UFO - Dawnguard AddOn.esp Active

UFO - Heartfire AddOn.esp Active

My Home Is Your Home.esp Active

Follower Trap Safety.esp Active

CerwidenCompanion.esp Active

mjhKhajiitSpeak.esp Active

Note: This mod overwrites all dialogue enable only when playing Khajiit.

mjhKhajiitSpeakDLC - Dawnguard.esp Active

Note: This mod overwrites all dialogue enable only when playing Khajiit.

mjhKhajiitSpeakDLC - Hearthfire.esp Active

Note: This mod overwrites all dialogue enable only when playing Khajiit.

Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp Active

TrueDeath.esp Active

getSnowy.esp Active

WATER.esp Active

RND_Water-Patch.esp Active

Compatibility patch - PHT, CoS, WIC IA.esp Active

RaceMenu.esp Active

RaceMenuPlugin.esp Active

Note: RaceMenuPlugin is optional and provides support to alter Height, Breast, Glute and Biceps. If you experience issues with it, disable RaceMenuPlugin.esp and inform the author.

ReProccer.esp Active

WTF.esp Active

Note: May need TES5Edit cleaning. Several test generations of this SkyProc Patch included ITMs. (http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit)

 

[ripple]

What's the problem you were having with Wrye Bash?

[ArchAngelAlien]

I am still getting my mod list stable to where I like it, so I don't add or remove mods later to corrupt my saves. I know like you said having a large order list can damage your game over time, but I have done some extensive reading of all mods listed and know what not to do to cause future problems.

 

I used reproccer with a patch for my custom weapon mods with a patch I installed, and also ran a program called WTF to change out the zone levels for a random experience playthrough. It seems all the creatures and people in the world have the items of the mods (still testing if they all do or not) so I don't really understand why Wyre Bash is needed. Or how to use it, or what it does. Could you explain and run me through it? Does it let me create custom loot lists?

[ripple]

I used reproccer with a patch for my custom weapon mods with a patch I installed, and also ran a program called WTF to change out the zone levels for a random experience playthrough. It seems all the creatures and people in the world have the items of the mods (still testing if they all do or not) so I don't really understand why Wyre Bash is needed. Or how to use it, or what it does. Could you explain and run me through it? Does it let me create custom loot lists?

 

The short answer is that the ReProccer and the Bashed Patch do different things.

 

The long answer is that the ReProccer is primarily aimed to edit item properties like weapons, armour, ammunitions, etc. in accordance to a specific formula (set in the xml) in order to dynamically generate a compatibility patch intended to force all relevant mods in your load order to conform to the settings of SkyRe, rather than patches that has to be manually maintained (as was done prior to the ReProccer, which was painful and a time sink).

 

Whereas the Bashed Patch is primarily intended to automate the merging of conflicting leveled lists (usually used to distribute mod items to respawning NPCs), and other functions like merging plugins that make minor game edits (thus reducing the number of active esp's in your load order).

 

WTF does something else entirely. It's primary purpose is to randomize the level scaling of encounter zones, which affects both the type and strength of MOBs that spawn as well as the quality of loot, but it does not do what the ReProccer and the Bashed Patch do.

 

If you swing by the ReProccer support thread and search for 'Bashed Patch' (or conversely, search for 'ReProccer' in the Wyre Bash thread), you'll see that both utilities are recommended for those using SkyRe and can work in conjunction with each other (with specific procedures).

 

In game terms, without a Bashed Patch, if you are using multiple mods that edit the same leveled lists to distribute gears to respawning NPCs (for example, the ever popular bandits), only the mod that 'wins' the contest of conflicts (by being loaded after all other conflicting mods) will properly distribute all of its items. Other mods that have conflicting leveled lists which have been 'overriden' will exhibit 'anomalies.' The severity can range from just some weapon/armour/cloaks not spawning on bandits as intended by a mod, to some bandits spawning naked and weaponless.

 

You can dispense with a Bashed Patch if you have a manually made leveled list compatibility patch that covers all the relevant plugins in your load order, typically using TES5Edit (and may take a looooonnnng time, depending on how many mods in your load order edits the same leveled lists). But Wrye Bash automates the entire process, so obviously it's better to generate a Bashed Patch than to manually make a leveled list compatibility patch.

Edited February 9, 2013 by ripple

[ArchAngelAlien]

Okay I am confused again. Haha. When I finalize my load order, and my mods, will you help me make a batched patch and run me through it? Will it conflict with Reproccer?

 

I can pay you for your time.

Edited February 9, 2013 by ArchAngelAlien

[ripple]

Okay I am confused again. Haha. When I finalize my load order, and my mods, will you help me make a batched patch and run me through it? Will it conflict with Reproccer?

 

I can pay you for your time.

 

Pay me? No....not what I want from this. If by "run you through it", you mean will I answer any questions you post and do my best to help clarify any instructions or series of steps you might need help with--absolutely, as long as you are willing to occasionally look up stuff on your own and generally exhibit a willingness to learn how to DYI, I'll be happy to help, even if this thread goes on for another 20 pages. The more you know, the more likely you will be able to help someone else down the road. -That-, friend, is what I want to come out of this. It's really what these forums are for.

 

Let me know when you are near the 'finalizing stage' and you've installed Wrye Bash (or if you experience issues while trying to install it), and check the instructions I posted on that thread I linked. If anything is not sufficiently clear, or if you need confirmation on something, you have but to ask.

[ArchAngelAlien]

Alright. May need some time, I am currently overhauling my graphics due to ordering 2 7970s for crossfire so I can finally run those nice ENBs with a decent FPS. =D. I want to have my mod list pristine, so I won't be tempted to touch it and pull files in the middle of a serious saved game. With the mods I have already, I could do with trimming some fat, as there is a lot of them. All one step at a time, I swear I will play one day!

[ripple]

I want to have my mod list pristine, so I won't be tempted to touch it and pull files in the middle of a serious saved game.

 

Ideally, you'll be keeping tabs on the mods you use and update them in your load order when new versions become available. :) I always suggest starting with a modest size load order for many reasons. Adding mod isn't a big issue, the biggest problem comes when people yank mods out of their load order. This is a common reaction to game instability. The user experiences CTDs or game freezes and lockups, and realizes they've installed too many mods, start pulling them out in a vain effort to stabilize their game (sometimes leaving orphan files in their game data folder because the mods were uninstalled improperly--the major reason I recommend the Mod Organizer over NMM), but find their save games have gone to hell because the uninstalled mods have left orphan junk behind and there is no way to clean save games. Also, since you need to keep tabs on a when the mods you use update, a large load order just makes it more difficult to do that (especially when new DLCs are released. The majority of the 'I can't absorb dragon souls anymore even with the unofficial dragonborn patch' posts are from people using other mods which conflicts with the scripts relevant to killing and absorbing dragon souls...).

 

It's really hard not to want to install new mods. There are so many cool mods out there, in fact, modding is why I even bothered to get this game at all (because aside from having butchered any potential for a compelling RPG storyline, vanilla Skyrim is just so lifeless). But given that we can't 'clean save' any more in Skyrim (unlike Fallout 3/NV and Oblivion), we just have to be very careful about what mod install, and evaluate whether something should be installed based not just on whether we like the mod, but on what will happen to your save games if the mod is uninstalled. It's always easier to grow your mod list slowly then to be forced to trim the load order later on and face the prospect of having to start a new game.

 

If you have time, one utility you might want to familiarize yourself is TES5Edit. Like its predecessors for Oblivion and Fallout 3/NV, this is an amazing tool for modding. It will allow your to make compatibility patches for record conflicts that even Wrye Bash and the ReProccer will not (yet) resolve (albeit, it's incredibly time consuming to do).

Edited February 10, 2013 by ripple