DragonJTS Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Harold isn't a ghoul aty all, and it was ultimatly declared that FEV had no role in the creation of ghouls: "There is some controversy even among the makers of Fallout games about the origins of ghouls. While Tim Cain said explicitly that ghouls are only a result of radiation, consistently with the "SCIENCE!" of the 1950s, Chris Taylor said that a mix of both radiation and FEV was in play (which would probably mean that there aren't any ghouls outside the Core Region). While Chris Avellone initially supported the latter view in his Fallout Bible[2], he was later convinced to support the radiation-only version[3], which is also confirmed in Fallout 3. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeefjerky Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 That contradicts common sense, if the mutant animals are because of FEV then the ghouls would too, moreover the mutated FEV was spread pretty much world wide after the tanks at West-Tek were destroyed by the nuclear strike.Nothing in Fallout 3 goes against this either. No, not even Moira. Which I'd rather nobody mention because it's goddamn stupid, ghoulification is a slow process with many symptoms.Many of Tim Cain's ideas have later evolved or been rewritten by others anyway, and as for Chris Avellone.. well.. he works for Obsidian and is the lead designer for Alpha "We think women don't make good spies" Protocol. So excuse me while I don't give a damn what he of all people thinks. And I already said Harold isn't a ghoul, but the fact remains that his kind of Super Mutant (which includes Talius of Vault 13) are virtually indistinguishable from ghouls. Granted, that requires direct exposure to West-Tek type FEV and given the useless crap they call FEV on the east coast it's not likely there'd be any in Fallout 3.Then again Harold shouldn't really be here either, but eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutlander Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 evilbeefjerky said: That contradicts common sense, if the mutant animals are because of FEV then the ghouls would too, moreover the mutated FEV was spread pretty much world wide after the tanks at West-Tek were destroyed by the nuclear strike.You know I've been reviewing the articles on the Fallout Wikia and I can't find any reference to FEV being the reason mutant animals exist in Fallout (in fact if that were the case it doesn't makes sense how Centaurs are created partly using Brahmin if, Brahmin themselves only exist because of FEV). In fact much of the information I have been able to gather indicates that the mutated animals exist because of the radiation and not FEV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeefjerky Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 TheOutlander said: evilbeefjerky said: That contradicts common sense, if the mutant animals are because of FEV then the ghouls would too, moreover the mutated FEV was spread pretty much world wide after the tanks at West-Tek were destroyed by the nuclear strike.You know I've been reviewing the articles on the Fallout Wikia and I can't find any reference to FEV being the reason mutant animals exist in Fallout (in fact if that were the case it doesn't makes sense how Centaurs are created partly using Brahmin if, Brahmin themselves only exist because of FEV). In fact much of the information I have been able to gather indicates that the mutated animals exist because of the radiation and not FEV... Before being tested on humans, FEV used on animals made them larger, stronger and more intelligent.Most of the animals we've seen in Fallout are just that, from ants to deathclaws. It's hinted at by other sources in the previous Fallouts too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephlyn Posted December 24, 2008 Author Share Posted December 24, 2008 evilbeefjerky said: TheOutlander said: evilbeefjerky said: That contradicts common sense, if the mutant animals are because of FEV then the ghouls would too, moreover the mutated FEV was spread pretty much world wide after the tanks at West-Tek were destroyed by the nuclear strike.You know I've been reviewing the articles on the Fallout Wikia and I can't find any reference to FEV being the reason mutant animals exist in Fallout (in fact if that were the case it doesn't makes sense how Centaurs are created partly using Brahmin if, Brahmin themselves only exist because of FEV). In fact much of the information I have been able to gather indicates that the mutated animals exist because of the radiation and not FEV... This is off my question topic guys. I'm wondering why a group called the Regulators exists at all I have some less then stellar memories of them in the first place. My last memories of them are me and a group of combat armored, laser rifle packing Blades cutting them in half. It seems like they just took the name from Fallout 1 and *insert cowboy wannabe here* Before being tested on humans, FEV used on animals made them larger, stronger and more intelligent.Most of the animals we've seen in Fallout are just that, from ants to deathclaws. It's hinted at by other sources in the previous Fallouts too.There are no more FEV Enclave deathClaws left only pre Enclave Deathclaws are left. (Fallout 2 ending) and Centaurs and the oddly missing awesome creature known as a "Floater" is because "The Master" put random animals together and found out what came out after that. As many have said Harold is not a ghoul and ghouls are made by exposure to FEV. FEV causes basically the reverse effect of what a ghoul's body looks like. The only thing similar to ghouls and super mutants is long life span. Reveal hidden contents If Ghouls were made by exposure to FEV The Master wouldn't of slaughtered Necropolis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuitous Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Everything except Super Mutants, Centaurs, Floaters, the Master, and anything said to be directly the cause of FEV, are in fact caused by radiation. FEV became an explanation because it "made more sense," scientifically - then they remembered that Fallout was based on "Science!" where Radiation causes all kinds of ridiculous effects (Godzilla, giant mutant ants, blah blah blah). So Radiation is the cause of pretty much everything you see, or so it was initially intended. FEV was used on a few different types of animals, but the only ones listed specifically were raccoons (who escaped and formed a community that never made it into a game) and monkeys (who pretended to be made retarded by the treatments). As for Harold... he's part Ghoul (from all the radiation exposure) and part Super Mutant (from the dipping). He's a special case among special cases, considering the FEV should have killed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeefjerky Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Sephlyn said: There are no more FEV Enclave deathClaws left only pre Enclave Deathclaws are left. (Fallout 2 ending) and Centaurs and the oddly missing awesome creature known as a "Floater" is because "The Master" put random animals together and found out what came out after that. So? Something had to mutate Deathclaws before the Enclave's experiments.As for Centaurs.. well, tell Bethesda that. Since they seem to think they're a direct result of seperate FEV experiments on the east coast. Quote Reveal hidden contents If Ghouls were made by exposure to FEV The Master wouldn't of slaughtered Necropolis. Untrue. *Everything* has been exposed to FEV to a certain extent, that's why regular wasteland humans and presumably ghouls were useless to the Master, they would make big, dumb gorillas at best. The Master wanted a race of his own kind - hyper intelligent beings to replace all other intelligent life.This is why Vault dwellers such as those in Vault 13 were important to him, they would be free of the mutated FEV and radiation and make superior Super Mutants. Circuitous said: Everything except Super Mutants, Centaurs, Floaters, the Master, and anything said to be directly the cause of FEV, are in fact caused by radiation. FEV became an explanation because it "made more sense," scientifically - then they remembered that Fallout was based on "Science!" where Radiation causes all kinds of ridiculous effects (Godzilla, giant mutant ants, blah blah blah). So Radiation is the cause of pretty much everything you see, or so it was initially intended. But then, FEV is based on Science! too. It's mutagenic green goo for crying out loud. That's pure 50's sci-fi nonsense right there.Therefore, the FEV explanation stands quite well. Avellone's opinion is irrelevant (and most of his ramblings in the Fallout Bible are dismissed and contradicted anyway, see the GECK) and if we went by everything Tim Cain said then the alternate U.S. doesn't have 13 commonwealths, it just has an old colonial flag with a big star in the middle because it looks cool. Quote FEV was used on a few different types of animals, but the only ones listed specifically were raccoons (who escaped and formed a community that never made it into a game) and monkeys (who pretended to be made retarded by the treatments). There don't have to be specifics, as again FEV was mutated into an airborne strain after the great war. Quote As for Harold... he's part Ghoul (from all the radiation exposure) and part Super Mutant (from the dipping). He's a special case among special cases, considering the FEV should have killed him. No, he's not a ghoul at all. He just looks like one. He is also not unique as again, there is Talius.Moreover, if you read Richard Grey's logs it states how he went through a phase similar to ghoulification, skin putrifying and peeling off. I think it's quite likely that Harold is a proto-Master type Super Mutant.In fact, maybe his psychic abilities in Fallout 3 aren't due to Bob at all, but rather he has become another Master, which might also explain the regenerative abilities of his tree form. Sure that's speculation, but it all fits. As for why he didn't become a regular Super Mutant by the way, it fits with the Master's theory.Richard Grey was from Vault 8, Talius was from Vault 13 and Harold was from Vault 29. All three were from vaults and hence not raised in the contaminated enviroment, and all three were exposed to Mariposa's FEV and turned into different types of Super Mutant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutlander Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 evilbeefjerky said: Sephlyn said: There are no more FEV Enclave deathClaws left only pre Enclave Deathclaws are left. (Fallout 2 ending) and Centaurs and the oddly missing awesome creature known as a "Floater" is because "The Master" put random animals together and found out what came out after that. So? Something had to mutate Deathclaws before the Enclave's experiments.Deathclaws were made through genetic engineering not FEV, they aren't mutants they are designed super predators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khet Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Wait, I just realized something. Now, I haven't read every other post carefully but... if Ghouls are caused by the FEV then how come Reveal hidden contents Moira gets turned into a Ghoul from blowing up Megaton? I mean, I thought it was established that the FEV levels are very low at this point in time. Did it take a mix of FEV AND radiation to create the Ghouls? So.. what it is? FEV, Radiation, or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeefjerky Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 TheOutlander said: evilbeefjerky said: Sephlyn said: There are no more FEV Enclave deathClaws left only pre Enclave Deathclaws are left. (Fallout 2 ending) and Centaurs and the oddly missing awesome creature known as a "Floater" is because "The Master" put random animals together and found out what came out after that. So? Something had to mutate Deathclaws before the Enclave's experiments.Deathclaws were made through genetic engineering not FEV, they aren't mutants they are designed super predators. Deathclaws being genetically engineered come from non-canon sources and is (apart from the Enclave's post-war tinkering) not supported in any canon Fallout game. Khet said: Wait, I just realized something. Now, I haven't read every other post carefully but... if Ghouls are caused by the FEV then how come Reveal hidden contents Moira gets turned into a Ghoul from blowing up Megaton? I mean, I thought it was established that the FEV levels are very low at this point in time. Did it take a mix of FEV AND radiation to create the Ghouls? So.. what it is? FEV, Radiation, or both? Again, Reveal hidden contents the Moira incident is too damn stupid to take seriously. Ghoulification doesn't work that way. Moreover, she says she was in the same area Silver is in if you blow up Megaton, but Silver is completely unaffected. This manages to even contradict itself. As for FEV, the mutated airborne FEV is still in the atmosphere and probably will be for a long time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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