Fahrenheit 9/11...

[sixtofive]

well said scrimshaw, undeniably the purpose of soldiers is to kill people and brake things, and that goes for the soldiers on both sides. to expect anything else is not intelligent in the least.

[surian]

Yes, but my argurment would be that there is no reason for going there in the first place and that while getting rid of Saddam is a decidedly good thing it should have been done in the first gulf war or we should have never supported his regime in the first place.

 

To get back to Moore's film though, the more I read about his film the more I begin to see things that I don't like. I'll say this first, his points are valid and he doesn't lie but he does use methods that I don't like and sometimes leaves out things or includes things that, while they arn't lies, are misleading. I still like f-9/11 but I wish that he had not resorted to some of the more misleading things that he did.

 

EDIT: completely off topic but can you guys tell me if my avatar is showing up? For me it isn't. Thanks.

[Eiade]

Yeah, of course people die in wars. She knew that. But she didn't see a good reason for the war. Many people don't. She wanted her son to die for a good cause. Not because Bush and his comitees lied about WMD's. They said that they had undenyable proof of WMD's in Iraq. But now they say that there aren't any. On top of that, they also tried to say that there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq. There was none. That's the opposing argument.

[Scrimshaw]

Yeah, of course people die in wars. She knew that. But she didn't see a good reason for the war. Many people don't. She wanted her son to die for a good cause. Not because Bush and his comitees lied about WMD's.

 

No one "lied". There was flawed intelligence reports. This is a HUGE piece of information left out by Moore's ridiculous film. Moore tried to frame it as though Bush planned the attacked, or was having so much fun golfing he just wasn't paying enough attention to national security. Which is it? Was Bush busy plotting the attacks, or was he lazy and playing golf all day? Moore is an idiot. His film expressed both ideas, even though they are self-contradictory. The FACT is this - Bush, the congress, the senate, and half the intelligence agency of every other country in the world had intelligence reports that indicated Saddam had WMDs. We know he had them because WE (the US) sold them to him years ago!!! Do you really think a tyrannical maniac like Saddam is going to just throw them away? HAHA!! Read the memoirs of his 30 years in power, and you take a wild guess regarding the matter. Based on all evidence of Saddams past behavior, there is a ZERO chance he would have bended to the wishes of the "evil American white demon" and disarmed himself. 12 years of failed weapons inspections? That simply proved that Saddam didn't give a rat's hiney about the UN or their sanctions. So we had ample proof that diplomatic efforts were NEVER going to work with Saddam. You can't reason with the unreasonable. You can't ask psycho power-mongers to diplomatically disarm of their own will. It would be like asking a dog not to drool. The only options were these -

 

1) Ignore the intelligence reports, and hope they are wrong. Hope that we don't have another 9-11, with WMDs. Gamble.

 

2) Go in there and DISARM Saddam by force. Don't take chances with American security. Find out if there are WMDs, and destroy them ourselves.

 

Our government (yes, including your precious Dems) chose to heed the warnings of the intelligence reports and take action. They chose option 2, which was the CORRECT choice.

 

They said that they had undenyable proof of WMD's in Iraq. But now they say that there aren't any. On top of that, they also tried to say that there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq. There was none. That's the opposing argument.

 

9-11 Commission confirmed that the CIA had given our entire government (not just Bush) faulty intelligence reports. Our government acted based on the information it had been given. There are no evil lies or conspiracies here. We had an intelligence breakdown, which is also the same problem that allowed 9-11 to happen in the first place. The problem has been identified and our government has already taken many steps to get it corrected. So quit with the ignorant Bush-bashing. Moore's film is a misleading pile of dung, factually. As a piece of entertainment and humor? Its an EXCELLENT film.

[ImmortalSnafu]

No one "lied".

There were numerous lies by the Bush administration, but I agree that Moore left out lots of important information.

[sixtofive]

On top of that, they also tried to say that there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq. There was none. That's the opposing argument.

This is a commonly mistaken fact. There was a connection between Iraq and known terrorist organizations. The current administration did not say that there was a direct connection of Iraq to 9-11, but instead that there was a connection to the group responsible. It is a small difference, but has been completely misreported and misrepresented. The major media outlets are guilty of misquoting this statement in a very irresponsible manor.

[tyjet3]

This is a commonly mistaken fact. There was a connection between Iraq and known terrorist organizations.

 

I'm not so sure about that. But I do think Saddam was a threat.

 

There were numerous lies by the Bush administration

 

name one president that didn't lie...... yeah, that's what I thought...

 

I agree that Moore left out lots of important information.

 

As stated before, I think Moore left this information out because he couldn't find evidence that was logical and bulletproof. He didn't put it in because he would lose credability.

 

The major media outlets are guilty of misquoting this statement in a very irresponsible manor

 

Totally agree. I'm telling you, media is the worst thing about our country... They can do so much damage and usually people believe the crap they come up with.

 

And for people that don't think media is bad...

 

Who killed Princess Diana? that's right kids, media... damn paparazzi