Mod Creation/Design Best Practices

[Garuda002]

Experienced mod creators/designers,

 

I've been modding my Bethesda games for probably 6 or 7 years now, but I've finally decided to try my hand at making my own content. I'm a junior electrical/computer engineer, so I have enough coding knowledge/experience that I'm comfortable writing code and designing scripts. I've already created two fairly large cells, complete with furniture, clutter, and navmesh. I have also created a couple of NPCs and scripted a couple of basic quests using custom activators built from static objects.

 

Where I find myself not comfortable moving forward is in more advanced design practices.

As an experienced mod user, I know poor script design can wreak havoc on a user's game save and general gameplay experience. What are the scripting rules of thumb to minimize bugs, script lag, and save game bloating?

The mod I am trying to make is essentially a DLC overhaul and my original plan was to simply make additions to the existing cells and scripts, but as I continue to move forward, I have started thinking maybe it's easier to duplicate the cells and start from scratch, since I'm essentially ignoring the original questline of this DLC. What is the rule of thumb for overhaul type mod design when it comes to editing vs. making new cells?

 

Also, is there a way to copy specific changes from an esp in order to start my efforts fresh or does this cause dependency issues?

 

Any insight is welcome and appreciated!

 

[xenaclone]

This forum is really slow. Hope you're still around.

 

So you're saying you want to duplicate some cells included in DLC. Let's say, a cell in Mothership Zeta?

 

I know that a lot of modders duplicate cells because this is a good way to NOT start from scratch. You won't have to make navmesh, for instance, and you won't have to set the way those cells are lit. So I'm thinking it's okay to duplicate those cells. I am not a huge expert, or anything.

 

I don't know any answers to your other questions 100%. I'd like to know this stuff too, as I'm also an avid (but not very knowledgable) scripter. :geek: I know Return gets used a lot in scripts. Return causes the script to not process fully, but I don't understand how it works exactly. Anyway, if you know how to use Return, that's one function which is supposed to cut back on script processing, which I assume is what you mean by lag or 'bloat'.

 

I have found Googling the heck out of Fallout 3, using the unofficial and official Geck Wikis is the only way I can get some answers. That, and lot of experimentation.

Edited October 26, 2020 by xenaclone

[Garuda002]

@xenaclone, yeah I can imagine since FO3 is 12 years old now and all of the active modders are either on FO4 or Skyrim lmao. But yeah the goal of my mod is to redo the Broken Steel DLC with the option of joining the Enclave if you poison the purifier like Eden promised. I have copied interior cells just fine with no problems as far as I can see, I just need to delete references and triggers from the original cells. I have run into a problem when duplicating an exterior cell though. Everything seems to work as I expect it to, but the tree LOD is completely trashed. I get the phantom tree issue and have spent all night looking for a solution with no luck. It's not a game breaking bug, but I know there are a lot of people out there that are graphical snobs and would hate seeing that. But other than that, yeah like you said GECK wiki, google, and experimentation have kept me moving along just fine.

[xenaclone]

Nice! I like the sound of that. So you're trying to make it so you can join the Enclave instead of Citadel / Brotherhood. That is definitely doable. I mean, it'd take a lot of work, but it's doable for sure.

 

First question is, does the vanilla (unmodified) game already include the option to poison the purifier? I actually do not remember if this already an option in the base game. Hopefully Bethesda already wrote it this way. If so, a lot of work is already done.

 

You do not want to delete references and markers from the original cells, unfortunately. :no: Those must stay, since quests and scripts already are involved with those. Well, maybe you can delete them if the quests associated with them are already done. But if you're needing to go through any quests which involve those, your game would probably crash when it tries to pull up one of those references, and it's not there anymore. Personally, I'd leave those alone.

 

I know nothing about how LOD works. I've been spending all my time learning about scripts / quests over the past 4 years. Damn, I wish these forums were a little busier. Others here would know this sort of stuff.

 

Beth's original forums got archived, here is the Fallout 3 GECK forum. I read these sometimes while on lunch breaks and whatnot. You can scroll through those, looking for threads about LOD.

Edited November 9, 2020 by xenaclone

[xenaclone]

I'll try to check back into this forum more often.

 

Which exterior cell are you trying to duplicate? It's not a Wilderness cell, a Wasteland cell, is it? If so I'm not sure if this can be done. If it's not part of the Wasteland though, this is okay, as far as I know.

[Garuda002]

Yeah they made poisoning the purifier an option, but it never went anywhere since they killed off Eden and Raven Rock while you were unconscious. You could destroy the Brotherhood at the end of the vanilla DLC by calling an orbital strike on the Citadel, but it's kind of stupid to just destroy them after you helped them wipe out the Enclave. My plan is to just put a couple of qualifying statements into the script that runs after you activate the purifier. Instead of transporting you to the Citadel, you get captured by the Enclave and it will essentially be a mirror situation of Broken Steel, just with the Enclave. And the cell with the LOD issue is it's own wasteland cell, the satellite relay station where Liberty Prime gets destroyed.

[xenaclone]

Yes, I remember that. There was that option to destroy the Brotherhood, but it seemed sort of an afterthought. It'd be more compelling to join the Enclave right off.

 

Cool, I think that is possible. Instead of teleporting the player character to the Citadel after activating the purifier, you could teleport him or her to some Enclave cell. Sounds easy enough. Problem is, once you get going with quest & script writing, oftentimes that 'easy' idea doesn't seem so easy! :laugh:

 

I think it's possible though. Maybe you've already done this. If so, just ignore my words below. I'm just thinking this through for my own learning.

 

I would maybe try changing whatever script teleports the player to the Citadel (PlayerRef.moveto X most likely, with X being that Citadel cell, or wherever it sends us), and then try modifying it to teleport elsewhere. This is probably easier said than done. The game is going to expect the player is following Bethesda's vanilla quest, so you'd have to make sure this vanilla quest isn't messing things up later. Does a Quest Stage get set at that moment? :yes: Likely yes. Does this Quest Stage expect certain references /conditions are being made? Likely. I don't know exactly. You'd have to study how Beth does it, and then make sure nothing gets messed up from that point on.

 

You'd also have to add the Player to a Faction as well, since the Enclave is hostile by default. I would Make a custom faction, and then I'd make sure this faction is friendly to the Enclave. From the GECK's main toolbar select Character and then Faction. That link explains what all the selections are for the Factions window.

 

After that, add the player to this faction in the same moment the player gets moveto'd the Enclave cell. Player.SetFactionRank Xfaction 1 (whatever your custom faction name is is the Xfaction). You can also add the player directly to an Enclave faction as well, but I've found it better to make custom factions, sometimes. Custom factions work better in scripts and conditional calls, assuming we need to reference one of the player's faction(s) at some point.

 

Would you also want to continue writing quest(s) which further include the Enclave? This is very possible. I had a character join Talon Company 3 years ago. She joined them, and then did about a dozen quests which I wrote, mostly kill / fetch / accompany type quests. I was learning how to write quests at the time, while using the GECK. GECK does a few things different than Oblivion's Construction Set, but enough things are the same that the process went smoothly enough overall.

 

 

 

And the cell with the LOD issue is it's own wasteland cell, the satellite relay station where Liberty Prime gets destroyed.

 

I see. That is its own outdoor cell unconnected to the rest of the CW, so that is safe. Still don't know much about the LOD and why it would be dropping out. Wish these forums were busier. Just be persistent. If you want to figure this out badly enough (and have the time) you eventually will figure it out. Or at least get some sort of answer why it can't be figured. I've been there, lots of times.

Edited November 9, 2020 by xenaclone

[xenaclone]

double post. Grr.

Edited November 9, 2020 by xenaclone

[yojeff]

Just to add, you shouldn't delete stuff in the original cells, since other mods might expect that stuff to be there.

[yojeff]

When you say

 

Yeah they made poisoning the purifier an option, but it never went anywhere since they killed off Eden and Raven Rock while you were unconscious. You could destroy the Brotherhood at the end of the vanilla DLC by calling an orbital strike on the Citadel, but it's kind of stupid to just destroy them after you helped them wipe out the Enclave. My plan is to just put a couple of qualifying statements into the script that runs after you activate the purifier. Instead of transporting you to the Citadel, you get captured by the Enclave and it will essentially be a mirror situation of Broken Steel, just with the Enclave. And the cell with the LOD issue is it's own wasteland cell, the satellite relay station where Liberty Prime gets destroyed.

do you mean "its own wasteland WORLD"? You did duplicate the world, not just a cell in the world?

Edited November 14, 2020 by yojeff