SkyNet

[ganp0t]

First of all, hello. I'm the lead writer of SkyNet, a multiplayer mod for Skyrim. I'm starting this thread for two reasons: our group needs more volunteers, and I want to answer any questions people might have concerning us. Our website is found here: http://virtual-asylum.com/ (if you are wondering why our mod team has an official name in addition to the project name, the answer is that we like to be semi-professional in approach).

Before I do anything else, I should get something out of the way. Some of you have probably heard of SkyNet before. We used to be partnered with Skyrim Online and Tytanis (http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/504494-tytanis-skyrim-online-and-skynet-announce-cooperation/, but that arrangement ended messily shortly after it formed. In the aftermath SkyNet was accused of many things, including stealing money and assets from Skyrim Online. I don't want to delve too deeply into the past for fear of restarting old arguments, so I will simply say that Skyrim Online and SkyNet came to an agreement and mutually agreed to cease hostilities (although we are still rivals).

If you choose not to belief me, that is fine. But I should point out that the Skyrim Script Extender team (SKSE) has also refused to work with Skyrim Online. Their latest license text document reads

These notes apply to all of the files in src/skse:Due to continued intentional copyright infringement and total disrespect for modder etiquette, the Skyrim Online team is explicitly disallowed from using any of these files for any purpose.

Now then, about SkyNet itself. We intend to fully convert Skyrim from a single-player experience into an MMO. This includes skill-based PvP (both tournaments and open-world raids), group dungeons, an overhauled economy, overhauled combat and skills, a new UI, a completely new story, and new PvE factions. More detailed information is available on our website, but I will supply the basics here. Our plan is to include a main storyline around twice the length of Skyrim's, and 6 full factions with their own quest-lines. Lastly, our project is completely open-source, which means players will be able to download custom servers if they so choose.

The main story revolves around the war between the Aldmeri Dominion and the Coalition (comprised of the Empire and Stormcloaks), which takes place 10 years after vanilla Skyrim. Player may join factions including the Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Mages College, Companions, Bloodfang (a werewolf splinter group from the Companions), and Worm Cult. Each faction will be extremely different thematically. Each Daedric Prince will also have a small cult, which will serve to spice up gameplay so that things don't becomes too tedious.

You might wonder why SkyNet would be necessary when an official MMO (The Elder Scrolls Online) is being developed by a professional studio. Well, from what we have seen, The Elder Scrolls Online will play very similarly to most MMOs: from a third person perspective and utilizing a hot-bar system. We want to preserve the immersion found in the main Elder Scrolls series by keeping our game 1st person and with a minimal UI.

At the moment, we plan to offer a stand-alone arena pvp mode to build support and help us recruit new members. To further this aim, we are most looking for experienced C++ programmers and Papyrus scriptwriters, as well as animators. Further down the line, we will have more need of 2D and 3D artists, voice actors, writers, and level creators. You can find some demonstration videos of our efforts so far right here: http://www.youtube.com/user/skynetofficialdev

So, does anyone have any questions or thoughts? I can go into greater detail if anyone wishes.

[yamashi]

Wait isn't SkyNet the project that didn't make any progress in years and that actually never worked ?

You and I have never been rivals, one can talk about rivalry when there is actually a race between the two... Words don't make a mod just saying.

 

Btw, SKSE doesn't want me to use the sources due to the ads on my website that's all there is to it :smile:

Edited February 25, 2013 by awpsoleet

[ganp0t]

Wait isn't SkyNet the project that didn't make any progress in years and that actually never worked ?

You and I have never been rivals, one can talk about rivalry when there is actually a race between the two... Words don't make a mod just saying.

 

Btw, SKSE doesn't want me to use the sources due to the ads on my website that's all there is to it :smile:

 

SkyNet has been making progress (granted, fairly slow progress) However, most of it has been behind the scenes. And you are free to watch the videos I linked to in my first post. We've got quite a bit more than words to our name. Yet I suppose you are correct that we are no longer really rivals. After all, your group is no longer making an MMO mod. You have instead opted to, as far as I can tell, create a small co-op game. I wish you the best with that project.

 

I cannot comment on why SKSE will not work with you, as I have not asked them personally. However, the notes in their document suggest a much deeper conflict than you describe. My intention was not to demean Skyrim Online, but to point out that other groups have expressed concern at the prospect of working with you.

[Ajoli]

Please do go into more details. All I can see in your video is that an NPC equips the same stuff as you do, and then a console repeating text-lines whenever you equip something.

 

What does this prove? Whats the concept youre proving? Granted, equipment syncing, but how is this a relevant breakthrough that proves you can do any of what you say?

[ganp0t]

Please do go into more details. All I can see in your video is that an NPC equips the same stuff as you do, and then a console repeating text-lines whenever you equip something.

 

What does this prove? Whats the concept youre proving? Granted, equipment syncing, but how is this a relevant breakthrough that proves you can do any of what you say?

As the names of those videos imply, we were testing out equipment syncing. We also have earlier videos showcasing player location data and other important information. Obviously, without being able to transmit data back and forth from a client program and a server, an MMO will not be able to function. So the videos prove we have finished a lot of the ground work. We should have a new video fairly soon. At the moment, our programmers are mostly busy solving some errors which occur when utilizing SKSE.

 

As for everything else? Well, we have a writer (me), a couple of artists, and a handful of programmers. I've already started writing the quest storylines, and NPCs aren't exactly hard to place. So new quest lines are pretty much a given. Even in the worst case scenario (we can't find decent voice-actors and animators), we will still be able to finish our mod. It will just take longer and be slightly less impressive. We very well might have to cut features down the line. But we'll role with the punches and do what we can.

 

I can't offer you proof that SkyNet is ever going to be completed. Even a professional game development studio cannot do that. But what I can tell you is that I have been working on SkyNet for over a year, and I would have left a long time ago if I thought it wasn't possible.

Edited February 26, 2013 by ganp0t

[yamashi]

Dude, do you realize how easy it is to do what is in your videos ? I released more 3 days after I heard about ScriptDragon, 3 days... It has been more than a year now that you are trying.

 

I go on your forums from time to time and I read things that make my eyes bleed...

Let's take some examples (from your lead programmer) :

The client framework that I was writing decided that it didn't like me, so I've had to go about it differently. Going to more-or-less forego C# on the client side, transmit state changes using JSON objects and use C# on the server.

JSON to transmit 6 floats and a few ints from time to time really ? And wasn't C# what you wanted since the beginning ?

Okay, so it turns out that you can't call methods from other processes using their pointers... Stupid security...

I want to call methods from Script Dragon by pointer from outside of Skyrim, but it's not letting me T.T

Passing function pointers to call them in a different address space seriously ?

Working on a Papyrus processor for the SkyNet server. This should mean, if our framework is set up correctly, that our server can directly manage and emulate Papyrus!

Recode the whole engine you sure it's a good idea ? Look at OpenMW the game mechanics are simpler and they are not near completion.

 

You do realize that your ideas are not hard or near impossible ? They are just impossible, simple as that it would take an amateur team a life time to recode the whole engine and not simple amateurs... it would take very skilled programmers...

Edited February 26, 2013 by awpsoleet

[MikeDavis]

Man tell me something how diferent is papyrus from c++ ? If u know C++ u will make your work around with papyrus?

[Ajoli]

Awpsoleet summarized everything I wanted to say, but was too lazy to actually say...

 

Well, good luck guys, but I ain't holding my breath for this project.

[hipolipolopigus]

Alright, time to jump into the fray and give Ganpot a heart attack :rolleyes:

Dude, do you realize how easy it is to do what is in your videos ? I released more 3 days after I heard about ScriptDragon, 3 days... It has been more than a year now that you are trying.

I go on your forums from time to time and I read things that make my eyes bleed...
Let's take some examples (from your lead programmer) :

The client framework that I was writing decided that it didn't like me, so I've had to go about it differently. Going to more-or-less forego C# on the client side, transmit state changes using JSON objects and use C# on the server.

JSON to transmit 6 floats and a few ints from time to time really ? And wasn't C# what you wanted since the beginning ?

>

Okay, so it turns out that you can't call methods from other processes using their pointers... Stupid security...

I want to call methods from Script Dragon by pointer from outside of Skyrim, but it's not letting me T.T

Passing function pointers to call them in a different address space seriously ?

Working on a Papyrus processor for the SkyNet server. This should mean, if our framework is set up correctly, that our server can directly manage and emulate Papyrus!

Recode the whole engine you sure it's a good idea ? Look at OpenMW the game mechanics are simpler and they are not near completion.

You do realize that your ideas are not hard or near impossible ? They are just impossible, simple as that it would take an amateur team a life time to recode the whole engine and not simple amateurs... it would take very skilled programmers...

 

Ever the aggressor, huh? :rolleyes: Pardon me for not being the low-level-programming-elite that you clearly are! Actually, it's more than 6 floats. It's an entire state frame difference captured every 30ms. Everything from position and rotation to current animation and combat state.

 

C++ isn't my thing, but I'm sure you've never made a mistake. I've been learning the nuances of C++ in between life (And death) matters, so pardon me for having more important things to take care of.

 

Not recode, no. All it does is translate Papyrus into C# so our server can emulate vanilla quests with minimal work. What that then does is send the appropriate Papyrus commands to the clients by name with a stack of parameters. Server runs "Papyrus", tells client which Papyrus which commands to execute with what parameters. Not hard.

 

No offence here (Oh, who am I kidding? Plenty of offence), but "Skyrim Online" is neither Skyrim nor online, it's "This-one-town-is-the-only-thing-we-can-be-bothered-synchronizing-over-co-op". Don't dish out criticism if you can't take it. My team and I are actually trying instead of defaulting whenever we learn how hard something might be. Leave this thread, you are not welcome here, especially if all you're here to do is be a pathetic, flaming child. Again.

 

Man tell me something how diferent is papyrus from c++ ? If u know C++ u will make your work around with papyrus?

In writing it? It's like PHP meets BASIC. Most of the programming for Papyrus will be server-side, but that will be written in C#, only sending names of Papyrus functions to the client to execute. Works so far :happy:

Edited February 26, 2013 by hipolipolopigus

[yamashi]

Well if you didn't want me to come here, you shouldn't have mentioned me or my work in your posts don't you think ?

 

 

Every 30ms you do realize that no game oes that ? Except for FPS of course which have a very different way of handling things...

WoW for example has a heart beat of 1.5 seconds or more if I am not mistaken.

You don't even have experience in the video game industry nor networking, nor software design, you just made a few hacky softwares in C#...

 

The papyrus scripts won't get you anywhere by themselves you need to save the state machine and be able to produce the intended behavior which will take a lot more more than you expect.

 

If you really want to go for the stupid RPC approach (which does not work for video games btw) go for Ice or CORBA made by very smart people who have done better than you ever will.

 

Skyrim Online provides the ability to create new areas in which everything is scripted server side and everything is synced so I think it is pretty much Skyrim but not the official lore that's the only difference.

 

How can you talk about the complexity of syncing the game you are still hyped about ScriptDragon ? Yea it's great for starting up but I can assure you it will soon have its limitations and then you are on your own with IDA trying to figure out the inner workings of a very complicated game when you get to that point tell me if it's hard or impossible.

 

You talk a lot and yet you have never released anything... But videos of ScriptDragon's GetPosition(X/Y/Z)...

Edited February 26, 2013 by awpsoleet